Kirwin - 6 New teams in playoffs this year

[Sandy Claws]

Actually most of the time they do. Look at the Colts and New Orleans roster and tell me how many veterans do they have especially at key positions. Every team has to sprinkle in new guys and replace old with the new. But rarely does anyone do it wholesale with much success at least not for a few years.

You stated that experience was everything. Last year, the team with the most experienced roster failed to make the play-offs while the team with the least amount of experience made it. Your statement was FALSE. It's interesting that you point at the Colts as part of your justification when they had the second youngest roster in the league last year.

[panthers55]

Not sure why you bring up Peppers, since he's obviously better than Johnson et al, but didn't Leonard and Tyler start next to Lewis? That would mean that they didn't have to beat him for a job. And Kemo is really a nonfactor here since he didn't even play last year, so none of our players last year had the chance to take his job from him.

Because folks earlier in this thread keep talking about the loss of Lewis and kemo without really focusing on the fact that the Peppers loss was huge. And people only knew how much we missed Kemo once he was out. Kemo took up 2 guys which deosn't give you big numbers but was hugely important. But his loss was a big factor in our poor run defense. Actually Louis did try and take the job but got injured and was on IR himself. We had to rely on Thomas to shore it up who isn't here either.

[panthers55]

You stated that experience was everything. Last year, the team with the most experienced roster failed to make the play-offs while the team with the least amount of experience made it. Your statement was FALSE. It's interesting that you point at the Colts as part of your justification when they had the second youngest roster in the league last year.

No I didn't say either of those things. What I said was that experience at key positions was very critical and that both teams that played in the Superbowl had experience at those critical positions such as quarterback for example. You obviously didn't read my post or you would see that I said that everyone replaces older veterans with younger guys just not wholesale like we did and not at critical positions. Look at the Colts, much of there youth was at positions such as receiver or TE and some on the line. But at critical positions like quarterback, DE, middle linebacker, safety, etc, they had plenty of experience. You don't have to have all veterans but you have to miss in the old with the new.

Look at us. We will have several newcomers on the offense at positions like receiver and fullback and likely right guard. But we have some stability with mostly a veteran line, Smitty, both running backs etc. I haven't said much negative about it. But when you have to replace the defensive line, one linebacker, a strong safety, have very young players at other positions as well, plus are counting on their backups all to perform it is asking too many parts to work well with no breakdowns. Experience will hurt us not only with the starters but their backups when the inevitable injuries occur. For example if Beason gets hurt who replaces him? Connor? How many games has he played at Mike. And then you have no one to back up Anderson if he gets hurt or needs a blow? Bottom line is these new starters were the backups but guys behind them weren't even here last year.

So instead of jumping to argue, how about read the post and consider it.

[Cyberjag]

Because folks earlier in thsi thread keep talking about the loss of Lewis and kemo without really focusing on the fact that the Peppers loss was huge. And people only knew how much we missed Kemo once he was out. Kemo took up 2 guys which deosn't give you big numbers but was hugely important. But his loss was a big factor in our poor run defense. Actually Louis did try and take the job but got injured and was on IR himself. We had to rely on Thomas to shore it up who isn't here either.

I think lot of people here don't share your concerns about the defensive line. I am among them, although I am a little worried. The big issue to me is replacing Peppers. If we can do that, we're gold.

Johnson and Brown have both performed well in game situations, and Brayton is a decent starter. So even without Peppers, I'm thinking that at Defensive End we should be ok. But tackle is a big mess, right?

Tyler is a decent player, as is Leonard. Neither is going to the pro-bowl, but they're not replacing anyone who is. Irvin may be good, he may not. Johnson may find his way back to his heyday in Indy. Honestly, Defensive Tackle is a total crapshoot. And the key is staying healthy. If they do, then I don't see any reason why our defense can't be at least as good as it was last year. And I think a lot of others feel the same way.

On offense, everyone assumes we'll be better, and with good reasons. Moore is young and shiny, and we have a ton of new receivers and a franchise QB waiting in the wings. We have Stewart and Williams, and a healthy set of tackles.

This time of year everyone assumes that we will get through the season without catastrophic injuries. And if we do, then there's every reason to be optimistic. Particularly given the strength of our schedule compared to last years'.

So count me among those who are bullish on a winning record. But I'm not sure we go to the playoffs, even with 9-7 or 10-6. The South is too good and too competitive, and New Orleans and Atlanta also play that easy slate of games. If I'm Pat Kirwin and I'm looking at Atlanta and Carolina as potential wild card teams out of the south, well I can't blame him for going with the Falcons.

It will just make it more fun if we prove him wrong.

[Sandy Claws]

No I didn't say either of those things. What I said was that experience at key positions was very critical and that both teams that played in the Superbowl had experience at those critical positions such as quarterback for example. You obviously didn't read my post or you would see that I said that everyone replaces older veterans with younger guys just not wholesale like we did and not at critical positions. Look at the Colts, much of there youth was at positions such as receiver or TE and some on the line. But at critical positions like quarterback, DE, middle linebacker, safety, etc, they had plenty of experience. You don't have to have all veterans but you have to miss in the old with the new. .

You didn't say it?

Really?

If the Panthers make the playoffs this year it will be a much bigger surprise than when they did it in 2005 or 2008. Difference is this team has much less veteran leadership and experience. And experience counts for everything in the NFL. All of these guys have talent and athleticism or they wouldn't be here to begin with.

Seems pretty clear to me without a lot of possibility that I'm misreading. And that's your entire unedited post.

Look at us. We will have several newcomers on the offense at positions like receiver and fullback and likely right guard. But we have some stability with mostly a veteran line, Smitty, both running backs etc. I haven't said much negative about it. But when you have to replace the defensive line, one linebacker, a strong safety, have very young players at other positions as well, plus are counting on their backups all to perform it is asking too many parts to work well with no breakdowns. Experience will hurt us not only with the starters but their backups when the inevitable injuries occur. For example if Beason gets hurt who replaces him? Connor? How many games has he played at Mike. And then you have no one to back up Anderson if he gets hurt or needs a blow? Bottom line is these new starters were the backups but guys behind them weren't even here last year.

So basically, you've succumbed to the doom and gloom mentality primarily because we have questionmarks at a few positions and for players that we hope never step on the field. While not all of the questionmarks are likely to result in a positive, they certainly won't all be negatives as your attitude implies

So instead of jumping to argue, how about read the post and consider it.

Argue? Not so much unless you want it that way. Just posting my opinion which happens to differ from yours. I have read and considered your post. Way to much of a worse case scenario.

[Udogg]

No I didn't say either of those things. What I said was that experience at key positions was very critical and that both teams that played in the Superbowl had experience at those critical positions such as quarterback for example. You obviously didn't read my post or you would see that I said that everyone replaces older veterans with younger guys just not wholesale like we did and not at critical positions. Look at the Colts, much of there youth was at positions such as receiver or TE and some on the line. But at critical positions like quarterback, DE, middle linebacker, safety, etc, they had plenty of experience. You don't have to have all veterans but you have to miss in the old with the new.

Look at us. We will have several newcomers on the offense at positions like receiver and fullback and likely right guard. But we have some stability with mostly a veteran line, Smitty, both running backs etc. I haven't said much negative about it. But when you have to replace the defensive line, one linebacker, a strong safety, have very young players at other positions as well, plus are counting on their backups all to perform it is asking too many parts to work well with no breakdowns. Experience will hurt us not only with the starters but their backups when the inevitable injuries occur. For example if Beason gets hurt who replaces him? Connor? How many games has he played at Mike. And then you have no one to back up Anderson if he gets hurt or needs a blow? Bottom line is these new starters were the backups but guys behind them weren't even here last year.

So instead of jumping to argue, how about read the post and consider it.

I think what you are saying is true in general, but it depends. For instance, Beason from day 1 has probably been our 1-3rd best defensive player since he got here. Sherrod Martin came as rookie and played better than Godfrey(pre injury). I am more concerned with the leadership void than on the field play. However I think on the defensive side of the ball as far as leadership, Beason and possibly Davis will lead the front. On the offensive side, I don't know if a guy as emotional as Steve Smith can be your leader, however It worked for the cowboy's with Michael Irvin so you never know. As far as injury, you could look at every team in the league and say, well if they lose this guy they are hosed. I mean look at Pittsburgh. There defense without Polamalu is entirely different because he apparently makes up for a lot of defensive mistakes. If the Colt's loose Peyton Manning, their season is probably shot, where as if we loose Matt Moore, we are probably not that much worse. However they could loose Reggie Wayne and probably still move the ball efficiently as a long term loss of Steve Smith might be devastating for us. I'm just trying to say, I don't think it's as bas as you make it out to be. But tbh what you say could happen.

[panthers55]

I think lot of people here don't share your concerns about the defensive line. I am among them, although I am a little worried. The big issue to me is replacing Peppers. If we can do that, we're gold.

Johnson and Brown have both performed well in game situations, and Brayton is a decent starter. So even without Peppers, I'm thinking that at Defensive End we should be ok. But tackle is a big mess, right?

Tyler is a decent player, as is Leonard. Neither is going to the pro-bowl, but they're not replacing anyone who is. Irvin may be good, he may not. Johnson may find his way back to his heyday in Indy. Honestly, Defensive Tackle is a total crapshoot. And the key is staying healthy. If they do, then I don't see any reason why our defense can't be at least as good as it was last year. And I think a lot of others feel the same way.

On offense, everyone assumes we'll be better, and with good reasons. Moore is young and shiny, and we have a ton of new receivers and a franchise QB waiting in the wings. We have Stewart and Williams, and a healthy set of tackles.

This time of year everyone assumes that we will get through the season without catastrophic injuries. And if we do, then there's every reason to be optimistic. Particularly given the strength of our schedule compared to last years'.

So count me among those who are bullish on a winning record. But I'm not sure we go to the playoffs, even with 9-7 or 10-6. The South is too good and too competitive, and New Orleans and Atlanta also play that easy slate of games. If I'm Pat Kirwin and I'm looking at Atlanta and Carolina as potential wild card teams out of the south, well I can't blame him for going with the Falcons.

It will just make it more fun if we prove him wrong.

I hope that you are right and things turn out as rosy as you suggest. Problem is that we both know that things don't work like that for the Panthers. We have at least one sometimes more positions where we get hit by the injury bug every year. Johnson amd Brayton will end up being the two ends I would think given we will want to get them both on the field at the same time. Possibly bringing Brayton or Johnson inside on passing downs and Brown on the edge. But the real issue for me will be the DT position. I hope Louis makes a full recovery and keeps healthy all year. Seems an injury like that can make you vulnerable to more, Even with Meeks and Baker figuring out the best way they can to make the line effective, will we able to get pressure without blitzing? It isn't like I don't blitzing, I love it. Problem is that we need to play man under instead of cover 2. Any quarterback with ability can pick apart a cover 2 as soon as the blitzer becomes apparent. Doesn't help that we don't disguise our blitzes well.

Tank Tyler should make a decent rotational guy but doesn't have the skiils to dominate anyone at this point. And Irvin is a huge unknown. Taylor is another guy who has been virtually unheard from in the past 2 years.

We usually have a 7 or 8 man rotation on the line. WHo do we count on week in and week out to backup the starters? Perhaps the thing to be happy about is the Hurney has been very good at finding guys who can come in and patch the holes decently. Still I worry we get no pressure like we did in 2007 and really struggle to get penetration. THat year we were 18th against the run, 17th against the pass. Honestly that is going to be most telling issue. If we are porous again on run defense, it will make it easy for teams to keep us off balance and wear us down. We could never get off the field.

If we are more stout against the run, it will let us force more 3rd and longs and an opportunity for us to bring in Brown. Unless he shows he can actually hold the edge and get penetration instead of just going forward full tilt with no effort to turn the play back inside.

So many things will have yo go right this year for the DL to work out. I hope you are right and everything goes our way. That would be a first.

[monstercat]

You only got that partially right. Kemo and Lewis and Peppers were all either lazy or average. Their backups who were not good enough to replace them are all going to miraculously be fantastic and we won't miss a beat.:sifone:

WTH are you talking about? First of all, I already said that Peppers is gonna be hard to replace, and, secondly, nobody was battling Kemo or Damione Lewis for a starting job last year...especially since Kemo didn't play a down of football in 09.

[panthers55]

I think what you are saying is true in general, but it depends. For instance, Beason from day 1 has probably been our 1-3rd best defensive player since he got here. Sherrod Martin came as rookie and played better than Godfrey(pre injury). I am more concerned with the leadership void than on the field play. However I think on the defensive side of the ball as far as leadership, Beason and possibly Davis will lead the front. On the offensive side, I don't know if a guy as emotional as Steve Smith can be your leader, however It worked for the cowboy's with Michael Irvin so you never know. As far as injury, you could look at every team in the league and say, well if they lose this guy they are hosed. I mean look at Pittsburgh. There defense without Polamalu is entirely different because he apparently makes up for a lot of defensive mistakes. If the Colt's loose Peyton Manning, their season is probably shot, where as if we loose Matt Moore, we are probably not that much worse. However they could loose Reggie Wayne and probably still move the ball efficiently as a long term loss of Steve Smith might be devastating for us. I'm just trying to say, I don't think it's as bas as you make it out to be. But tbh what you say could happen.

I don't exactly mean to come off negative so much as being very concerned about some of the starters and most all the backups. Not so much that the starters won't have good games and over the first 5 or 6 will continue to improve and gel. It is just that I feel less confident with this group than last year's on the line and have visions of 2007 alll over again. It really will come down to the offense having to save us until the defense catches up. Seems I said the same thing last year. Hopefully this time we come out smoking instead of choking. I reallly am excited to see our receivers and Edwards. It is just that most of these posts have been discussing the defense and not the offense. I am pretty positive that we will score points this year. I just don't want to be like New Orleans in 2008. 8-8 because we can't stop anyone.

[panthers55]

WTH are you talking about? First of all, I already said that Peppers is gonna be hard to replace, and, secondly, nobody was battling Kemo or Damione Lewis for a starting job last year...especially since Kemo didn't play a down of football in 09.

Your are right chronologically they didn't compete and calling them backups who couldn't replace the starters was more a judgement of their potential. Tyler was a role player who had 6 tackles in 6 games versus Lewis who had 41 in 16 games. And Louis wasn't in there enough to know anything about his durability although I thought he played decently in the 2 games in which he appeared. Since he has only started 5 games iin 4 years it is hard to think of his as anything but a backup. Hopefully he dispels that and becomes the surprise of training camp. I would love for the line to be a huge surprise this year.

[Sandy Claws]

I don't exactly mean to come off negative so much as being very concerned about some of the starters and most all the backups. Not so much that the starters won't have good games and over the first 5 or 6 will continue to improve and gel. It is just that I feel less confident with this group than last year's on the line and have visions of 2007 alll over again. It really will come down to the offense having to save us until the defense catches up. Seems I said the same thing last year. Hopefully this time we come out smoking instead of choking. I reallly am excited to see our receivers and Edwards. It is just that most of these posts have been discussing the defense and not the offense. I am pretty positive that we will score points this year. I just don't want to be like New Orleans in 2008. 8-8 because we can't stop anyone.

I don't see the similarity between this year and 2007. In 2007, we were plugging in defensive players aquired during that off season as FAs, draft picks, or through trade. They definitely had to get familiar with each other and gel to use your word. That is not the case this year. Defensively, we're promoting from within. They've been going to meetings together, working on the practice field together, etc. They're way ahead of where the 2007 team was. A concern? sure but you seem overly concerned. Just my opinion.

[monstercat]

Anyway...enough about the defense. Can anybody think of one good reason why the Panther offense won't score some serious points this year? I have already heard Matt Moore say that they're gonna push the ball down the field more (on WFNZ) and now Fox is saying that the emphasis will be on the passing game during OTA's next week.

So if they can improve on what they did in the passing game at the end of last year, they shouldn't be so reliant on the defense anyway. We already know the running game is gonna get it done.

[Snake]

If the Panthers make the playoffs this year it will be a much bigger surprise than when they did it in 2005 or 2008. Difference is this team has much less veteran leadership and experience. And experience counts for everything in the NFL. All of these guys have talent and athleticism or they wouldn't be here to begin with.

That is just a stupid reason to say we are gonna have a bad year. Beason is a vet, Thomas Davis is a vet,Brayton yep he is a vet also. On the other side of the ball you have Gross,Whorton, and Smith. This team is flat out better then the 05 team that was carried to the playoffs on Jake and Smiths back.

[Mother Grabber]

And Williams, too...