Position Breakdown against the Falcons.

[Fiz]

he's had more production than a WR who had a ten games of Testaverde and Carr in 2007, 11 games of Jake Delhomme in 2009, and played in four fewer games over that timespan?

holy poo you've blown my mind

what other spellbindingly obvious stats can you warp out of context? you're taking numbers and magically turning them into crap. you're like a poo jesus.

[theDIRTYcode]

he's had more production than a WR who had a ten games of Testaverde and Carr in 2007, 11 games of Jake Delhomme in 2009, and played in four fewer games over that timespan?

holy poo you've blown my mind

what other spellbindingly obvious stats can you warp out of context? you're taking numbers and magically turning them into crap. you're like a poo jesus.

And I was waiting for you to come back with this bullshit. Cause in 2007 Roddy turned in 1,200 yards and 6 TDs with Joey Harrington, Byron, Leftwich, and Chris Redman.

[Fiz]

the offense was fuging fine with redman in 2007, and before that joey harrington was average. it's not his fault petrino was a lunatic.

that being said, it doesn't change the fact that the Falcons post vick were still better at the QB position than the panthers were for the majority of 07 and 09.

and it also doesn't mean that production=skill. there isn't a person in the nfl with two brain cells to rub together that would take roddy white over steve smith.

[theDIRTYcode]

the offense was f**king fine with redman in 2007, and before that joey harrington was average. it's not his fault petrino was a lunatic.

that being said, it doesn't change the fact that the Falcons post vick were still better at the QB position than the panthers were for the majority of 07 and 09.

and it also doesn't mean that production=skill. there isn't a person in the nfl with two brain cells to rub together that would take roddy white over steve smith.

Redman started all of 4 games that year, 1 more than Delhomme. Harrington has never been damn average. And I said we've gotten just as much production, never said a damn thing about skill. And I would take that bet if age is factored into the equation.

[Dpantherman]

Roddy White can't carry Steve Smith's jock

[Phil Dees]

there isn't a person in the nfl with two brain cells to rub together that would take roddy white over steve smith.

http://www.nfl.com/probowl/story?id=09000d5d8155c2fa&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

[panthers55]

I'm not a member of SR.com either, for much of the same reasons you stated. However, using "pwned" confirms my suspicion that you are about 19 and since school ended you don't have much else to do but sit around and post on the internet, and when you don't get a response in 10 minutes, declared that you have "pwned" the other poster. :hand: I'm shocked you have time to post in between rounds of EverQuest.

Really? You're going to call passer rating a "red herring", that "That stat is a measure of the offense's success not necessary the prowess of your secondary". Ummm...no....the passer rating is a formula created to measure the efficient of.....are you ready? The PASSING GAME. To say that it's a measure of the offense's success is retarded because the passing game is only half the offense (unless of course you're Mike Martz LOL). You throw away the #1 overall statistical indicator of the passing game's effectiveness because you don't like the number and it doesn't further your lame argument.

And I didn't pick a few random games that furthered my case...I picked three successive game, at the end of the season, against top teams, in which all of our defensive players were healthy. Big difference.

Actually I have 2 children who are older than 19 which is just another thing you are wrong about. I used the word because it fits, sorry if you don't understand internet lingo.

Again you are pretty humorous. You again sidestep all of the arguments I present and want to harp on the only thing you believe you have going which is a lousy 3 points in opposing passing rating. And it is not the most important statistic, not even 2nd or 3rd. The first important stat for a secondary is points surrendered. Panthers were better. The second most important stat is first downs surrendered- yeah Panthers were better. The third most important stat which accounts for difference in completions is yards per play. Again the Panthers were better.

Down the list somewhere around 6 or 7th would be opposing passer rating. Why? Because it measures the effectiveness of the quarterback on the passing defense but it doesn't measure the effectiveness of the secondary. Passer rating weighs some factors much more than others. And many people believe that passer rating is not a great stat to begin with.

It is clear to me that you will go back and forth all day with the same inane argument so lets refer this to a football site that does statistical analysis to determine effectiveness of the secondary.

ProFootball Outsiders rates everything and statistically compares teams on a number of factors. Here is their professional opinion:

They rated our pass defense 2nd, the Saints pass defense 9th. When they weighted it using statistical regression and analysis we were again 2nd, the Saints were 23rd.

They went on to rank by receiver.

Panthers

Number 1 receiver- 7th

Number 2 receiver- 5th

Other wide receiver- 5th

Tight End-22nd

Running back- 5th

New Orleans

Number 1 receiver- 2nd

Number 2 receiver- 25th

Other wide receiver-21st

Tight end- 5th

Running back- 19th

So what it shows in individual effectiveness is your secondary on average did slightly better on number 1 receivers, much better on TE and much worse on second and third receivers and running backs. So if you go back and compare position by position you can determine who did a better job. And leave the injury excuse at the door. But overall we were more consistent showed better defense across the board and were more effective.

Look over the facts and if you still want to argue or better yet need someone to explain everything to you feel free to come trolling back.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

[Dpantherman]

LMAO Jabari Greer, Tracy Porter, and that statue of Sam Mills are better set of corners that those cats...

you should change your name to Jargon. those noobs can't stay on the field long enough to be better than our guys.

[koolkatluke]

Let's end this Steve Smith Roddy White debate. 1.Roddy white gets single covered meaning he gets 1-1 coverage. While 89# is lucky if a team is dumb enough to go 1 on 1 with him. Roddy has never seen anything like triple coverage that 89# has too beat every game. Teams cover Smith with a LB underneath a CB man to man and a safety over the top. That's why most of his highlight plays are over 2 or 3 defenders. 2. White is not even the player teams focus on when it comes too the Falcon's passing game. Teams gameplan how too stop Tony G before they think of White. 89# is the unquestion focus when it comes too the panthers pass game. 89# demands more respect and attention from other D cordinators then White does. 3.Steve helps our run game more then White helps the Falcons run game. 89# a way better blocker then White this is not even close. Plus Steve as a decoy always takes a CB and safety with him leading too more big runs for double trouble. 4. Last 89# is more of a weapon in other phase of the game then White is . Steve is still 1 of the most deadly return men and is a threat on in arounds and screen plays. 89# can be used in more ways then White who is just a wr. Plain and simple you put Steve on any other team in the Nfcs he is the #1 wr and option. You can't say that about white.

[Cargojon]

Actually I have 2 children who are older than 19 which is just another thing you are wrong about. I used the word because it fits, sorry if you don't understand internet lingo.

Again you are pretty humorous. You again sidestep all of the arguments I present and want to harp on the only thing you believe you have going which is a lousy 3 points in opposing passing rating. And it is not the most important statistic, not even 2nd or 3rd. The first important stat for a secondary is points surrendered. Panthers were better. The second most important stat is first downs surrendered- yeah Panthers were better. The third most important stat which accounts for difference in completions is yards per play. Again the Panthers were better.

Down the list somewhere around 6 or 7th would be opposing passer rating. Why? Because it measures the effectiveness of the quarterback on the passing defense but it doesn't measure the effectiveness of the secondary. Passer rating weighs some factors much more than others. And many people believe that passer rating is not a great stat to begin with.

It is clear to me that you will go back and forth all day with the same inane argument so lets refer this to a football site that does statistical analysis to determine effectiveness of the secondary.

ProFootball Outsiders rates everything and statistically compares teams on a number of factors. Here is their professional opinion:

They rated our pass defense 2nd, the Saints pass defense 9th. When they weighted it using statistical regression and analysis we were again 2nd, the Saints were 23rd.

They went on to rank by receiver.

Panthers

Number 1 receiver- 7th

Number 2 receiver- 5th

Other wide receiver- 5th

Tight End-22nd

Running back- 5th

New Orleans

Number 1 receiver- 2nd

Number 2 receiver- 25th

Other wide receiver-21st

Tight end- 5th

Running back- 19th

So what it shows in individual effectiveness is your secondary on average did slightly better on number 1 receivers, much better on TE and much worse on second and third receivers and running backs. So if you go back and compare position by position you can determine who did a better job. And leave the injury excuse at the door. But overall we were more consistent showed better defense across the board and were more effective.

Look over the facts and if you still want to argue or better yet need someone to explain everything to you feel free to come trolling back.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

Let's end this debate with neutral, unbiased facts and be done with it.

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=CB&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

2009 CB rankings

Jabari Greer ranked #8

Tracy Porter ranked #37

Chris Gamble ranked #61

Richard Marshall ranked #78

Have a nice day.

[Pox 08]

Good comparisons.

Panthers>Falcons.

[Pox 08]

Let's end this debate with neutral, unbiased facts and be done with it.

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=CB&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

2009 CB rankings

Jabari Greer ranked #8

Tracy Porter ranked #37

Chris Gamble ranked #61

Richard Marshall ranked #78

Have a nice day.

PFF would have people believe that Ray Rice, Jamaal Charles and MJD are all better than Johnson was last year. As well as Beason being one of the poorer LBers in the league.........

[panthers55]

Let's end this debate with neutral, unbiased facts and be done with it.

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=CB&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

2009 CB rankings

Jabari Greer ranked #8

Tracy Porter ranked #37

Chris Gamble ranked #61

Richard Marshall ranked #78

Have a nice day.

Once again you are off the mark. We were discussing which secondary is better and when I proved that our was better you quickly switch the argument to comparisosns between individual players. I have never argued that Gamble or Marshall were indvidually better than the first 2 saint corners. Take that up somewhere else. The problem with your argument is that your secondary is more than just your first two or three guys. It is a combination of all the guys and how they played. It takes into account injury and the like. Which totally negates your stats and individual numbers more approriate to a fantasy football discussion. Lets stick to the topic and discuss the secondary. That is what this conversation is about no matter how you try and morph it into something you can actually defend.

[Cargojon]

Once again you are off the mark. We were discussing which secondary is better and when I proved that our was better you quickly switch the argument to comparisosns between individual players. I have never argued that Gamble or Marshall were indvidually better than the first 2 saint corners. Take that up somewhere else. The problem with your argument is that your secondary is more than just your first two or three guys. It is a combination of all the guys and how they played. It takes into account injury and the like. Which totally negates your stats and individual numbers more approriate to a fantasy football discussion. Lets stick to the topic and discuss the secondary. That is what this conversation is about no matter how you try and morph it into something you can actually defend.

If you'd like to include safties into the equation, I'll take 2 pro-bowlers in Sharper and Harper over any safety tandem in the division. Secondary = cornerbacks and safeties. Anything else you'd like to cover while you're having your ass handed to you?