Position Breakdown against the Falcons.

[koolkatluke]

depending on how you look at it, this is quite debatable.

looking at the 4 games these teams have played each other over the past 2 seasons...

atlanta = 122 attempts for 579 yards @ 4.7 ypc and 7 tds

carolina = 118 attempts for 570 yards @ 4.8 ypc and 6 tds

and looking at the stats for the 2 starters...

turner = 79 attempts for 389 yards @ 4.9 ypc and 5 tds

williams = 69 attempts for 326 yards @ 4.0 ypc and 2 tds

Are you serious? Both our # 1and 2 are comp. for their #1. If turner gets hurt they are done. Not too mention that Dwill has back to back great season turner has 1.

[Fenrir]

LMAO Jabari Greer, Tracy Porter, and that statue of Sam Mills are better set of corners that those cats...

Glad to see an intelligent and engaging Saints fan adding to the discussion. GTFO

[SorthNarolina]

Actually using last year's production with Moose is as relavent as comparing last year's numbers and extrapolating them to this year. For example their second receiver might be Douglas who was on IR all last year. Just like our second receiver is likely to be someone who wasn't on the team last year. At this point is all speculation anyway so how can you give anyone the edge yet??

If it's all speculation and we can't give anybody the edge then how can you say that we have any better WR's thab they do?

If you extrapolate the production of our current WR's compared to theirs then at best it's a tie.

[Cargojon]

Glad to see an intelligent and engaging Saints fan adding to the discussion. GTFO

You're going to try to make the point to me that the Panther's corners, or their secondary in general, is better than the Saints? I'm listening...

[panthers55]

If it's all speculation and we can't give anybody the edge then how can you say that we have any better WR's thab they do?

If you extrapolate the production of our current WR's compared to theirs then at best it's a tie.

I agree you can't say our receivers are going to be better than theirs. What you can say is that our receivers have been better than theirs in the past. While the past can be a good predictor of the future there is no guarantee it will play out any particular way. My belief is that both of the guys who will be our second receivers for each team did not play ball in the NFL for the season last year.

[Cargojon]

Saints and Panther position breakdown too come later.

I can't wait - I'm sure they'll be as "objective" :skep: as this was.

[panthers55]

You're going to try to make the point to me that the Panther's corners, or their secondary in general, is better than the Saints? I'm listening...

Lets go further. Our defense last year was 8th in the league, our pass defense was 4th and our run defense was 22nd. Compare that with the Saints whose total defense was 25th, the pass defense was 26th, and the run defense was 21st.

Our defense was equal or better in all phases of the game. The only thing that put the Saints over the top was offense which forced teams to take chances to catch up which sometimes resulted in turnovers.

You can talk about the secondary all day but they were 26th in the league. Don't know how you can make a case they weren't one of the worse in the league not one of the best. Even if you break it down to account for more attempts, the Panthers gave up 6.6 yards per pass and the Saints gave up 6.9 per pass. We gave up 155 first downs in the air (51%), the Saints gave up 175 first down in the air (53%). We had 1 interception per 22.5 pass attempts, the Saints had 1 interception per 22.1 pass attempts. We gave up 37 +20 yard passes (1 per 8.2 completions) and the Saints gave up 48 +20 yards completions ( 1 per 6.8 completions). And the list goes on. The only thing that the Saints were better in was that we allowed a 61.6% completion rate and the Saints allowed a 57.5% completion rate. But that is a reflection of a cover 2 which keeps things short, doesn't allow the big play and stop the YAC. Hence the reason we gave up less yards per attempt, fewer bigger plays and one less TD but gave up more short plays.

Tell me again how the Saints were better in pass defense????

How is that for objective???

[MadHatter]

Well, that shut him up.

[koolkatluke]

I can't wait - I'm sure they'll be as "objective" :skep: as this was.

How was this not objective??

I gave them QB, TE, DL and a tie at Safety.

Be real no way are they better at RB it's not even a close 2 1,100 yard backs compared too 1 with 1 good season and then injury filled season.

OLine no way 2 probowlers and 1 up and coming RT.

Lb need I say more.

CB 4th ranked pass Def. with both starting CB having 4int's.

[Cargojon]

Lets go further. Our defense last year was 8th in the league, our pass defense was 4th and our run defense was 22nd. Compare that with the Saints whose total defense was 25th, the pass defense was 26th, and the run defense was 21st.

Our defense was equal or better in all phases of the game. The only thing that put the Saints over the top was offense which forced teams to take chances to catch up which sometimes resulted in turnovers.

You can talk about the secondary all day but they were 26th in the league. Don't know how you can make a case they weren't one of the worse in the league not one of the best. Even if you break it down to account for more attempts, the Panthers gave up 6.6 yards per pass and the Saints gave up 6.9 per pass. We gave up 155 first downs in the air (51%), the Saints gave up 175 first down in the air (53%). We had 1 interception per 22.5 pass attempts, the Saints had 1 interception per 22.1 pass attempts. We gave up 37 +20 yard passes (1 per 8.2 completions) and the Saints gave up 48 +20 yards completions ( 1 per 6.8 completions). And the list goes on. The only thing that the Saints were better in was that we allowed a 61.6% completion rate and the Saints allowed a 57.5% completion rate. But that is a reflection of a cover 2 which keeps things short, doesn't allow the big play and stop the YAC. Hence the reason we gave up less yards per attempt, fewer bigger plays and one less TD but gave up more short plays.

Tell me again how the Saints were better in pass defense????

Let's use your own logic here for a minute to pick apart your points. You say that teams were behind by a lot which caused them to throw a lot and take chances, causing turnovers.

That same logic also leads an objective person to the conclusion that since teams were playing catch-up all the time, they were throwing a lot. And frankly, the Saints would let them, providing they kept them out of the end zone. Teams average 30 passing attempts per game against the Panthers, and 36 per game against the Saints. Of course they're going to put up more yards against the Saints than the Panthers if they're putting the ball up in the air a half dozen times her game more. Oh, and as you said, we still managed to maintain a lower pass completion % then the Panthers.

Ironically, the Saints only allowed 1 more passing TD on defense this year than the Panthers, and the Saints were passed on 75 more times during 2009. That's two full games worth. But only one more TD allowed. Oh, and that one more TD? Was by Matt Moore during week 17 when the Saints JV team was playing.

Don't you just hate it when people use your own logic to pick apart your points?:sifone:

[koolkatluke]

[Fiz]

the falcons dline is garbage, however

[panthers55]

Let's use your own logic here for a minute to pick apart your points. You say that teams were behind by a lot which caused them to throw a lot and take chances, causing turnovers.

That same logic also leads an objective person to the conclusion that since teams were playing catch-up all the time, they were throwing a lot. And frankly, the Saints would let them, providing they kept them out of the end zone. Teams average 30 passing attempts per game against the Panthers, and 36 per game against the Saints. Of course they're going to put up more yards against the Saints than the Panthers if they're putting the ball up in the air a half dozen times her game more. Oh, and as you said, we still managed to maintain a lower pass completion % then the Panthers.

Ironically, the Saints only allowed 1 more passing TD on defense this year than the Panthers, and the Saints were passed on 75 more times during 2009. That's two full games worth. But only one more TD allowed. Oh, and that one more TD? Was by Matt Moore during week 17 when the Saints JV team was playing.

Don't you just hate it when people use your own logic to pick apart your points?:sifone:

your supposed logic is pretty weak. Maybe it works on Sanits report but not here. I also pointed that even if you compare attempts and completions the Panthers were still better in every category. I even brought up TDs but your logic was inaccurate here as well. You don't use attempts as a comparison but completions so to follow your logic the Panthers gave up 14 TDs in 305 completions for a ratio of 1 TD for every 21.7 completions. The Saints allowed 15 TDs in 330 completions for a ratio of 1 TD for every 22 completions. So that supposed picking apart was a wash as well.

So lets review - the Saints gave up 44 yards more a game, they gave up almost a half a yard per completion than the Panthers secondary, gave up more first downs as a function of completions, Gave up more + 20 yard plays, viritually the same number of TDs, and collected virtually the same number of interceptions, Your whole supposed argument about attempts is largely irrelevant except as function of completions which we already discussed. Attempts are rarely used in defensive comparisons because there really is no way to distinguish between attempts that were influenced by something the defense did for example versus just a poor pass, or a drop or other issue that are a function of the offense. That is why attempts count in quarterback ratings but not defensive stats except as noted regarding completion percentage. And we already discussed that the Panthers by virtue of the cover 2 allow more completions but they are for less yards, less first downs, and less longer passes of over 20 yards.

So again you have nothing objective to prove your point that the Saints secondary is better than the Panthers secondary but there are lots of stats to prove that the Panthers secondary is better than the Saints even when more completions are factored in.

On another note part of the reason you only gave up 15 TDs in the air is because it was easier to run on you where you gave up 19 TDs on 435 attempts for a ratio of 1 TD for every 23 rushes. Compare that to our defense which gave up 15 TDs on the ground in 450 attempts for a ratio of 1 Td in every 30 rushes. Meaning teams were more likely to run it in on you guys in the redzone. So you gave up more TDs in the air and more TDs on the ground. Tell me again how you gave up yards but not as many TDs. Your defense gave up 21.3 points a game and we gave up 19.2, anyway you slice it your defense was worse than ours in the air and on the ground.

You really ought to do some homework before you go trolling on other team's boards. Maybe you should bring up a few more trolls to help you. You seem in over your head.

[panthers55]

After all that this is your come back???? :confused::confused:

I guess another one bites the dust P55.

Like shooting fish in a barrel. Problem for saints fans is that they are so into congratulating themselves on how great they are, they fail to actually look at the facts. After so many crappy defenses when they finally have one that doesn't totally suck, they over rate themselves. They finish 26th against the pass and think they are great.