Younger and Faster or ready for lockout?

[section543]

yes, a little of both, but really, the veterans released were OK, but not world beaters. My frustration with our team over the years has been the "flat" emotion we showed. I hope that whatever leadership or experience we might miss can be outweighed by the emotion and talent of the younger guys. We did get quite a bit faster too it appears. I just hope one of Pep's 3 good games doesn't happen against us.

[NanceUSMC]

I don't believe it's preparing for the lockout quite as much as it is taking the opportunity to dump toxic contracts (not in all cases) in preparation for the players we will need to resign shortly... The preparation for a lockout is simply a byproduct of the moves... That's simply my opinion... Many people misconstrue the Panthers refusal to pursue high profile, high priced free agents as being cheap... I disagree, and instead think it is simply the philosophy of the team... Let's face it, we are continually at or over the alotted cap, and are never 50 million under like some teams are... That ain't cheap... That's smart business...

[panthers55]

P-55, I know where you're coming from. I really do. You really are trying to be the voice of reason here. But, I think that you (and some others) are also being a little bit pessimistic, which i can't blame you for, being what has transpired over the last few months. Me, I am choosing to be optimistic. I just don't think that J-Rich is crazy enough to allow the team to come apart at the seams.

Of course this is all pure speculation and "seeing what I want to see", but here is a litle of what I am looking at:

We have two, possibly three, QBs who can at least manage a football game, so we're going to be alright there.

We have two great RBs, and another who is upward and coming who can fill in as an FB, as well as one who may still be, at least, serviceable (if not good). Moreover, we now have a couple of talented FBs. Out of the two, you know that at least one is starting material.

We still have a great, albeit aging, WR, but have added two guys with great athleticism at the position who can kinda "burn" according to Smitty. OF course we would always like to add more depth in the event that something doesn't work out, but there will be quality WRs to choose from in future drafts.

We have a solid stable at TE, any three of which could be a starter in the NFL.

Defensively, it may be more problematic or challenging, but, it's not like any of our guys are irreplaceable, save for TD and Beason. I really don't believe the FO is going to let Beason get away (or TD), and TD has already alluded to the fact that he wants to be a Panther, and will wait for his deal (because he realizes the impending problems with a walk-out).

Anybody else on defense, save those two, is expendable, because they haven't had the productivity that would justify the FO or Panthers fans to be alarmed by their departure. That being said, we have a group of talented young guys in the backfield and the line who will have the opportunity to make their marks in 2010, but won't have to be overpaid in the near future (because they haven't really done anything yet, and one year doesn't a superstar make).

All-in-all, I am thinking that we have enough talent to not only survive the fallout from a possible impending walk-out, but to thrive when the Smoke settles. Lastly, let's not forget that J-Rich has set himself up to have plenty of money (and trade bait).

It's gonna be alright!

I don't think that Richardson is going to let things fall apart either. He has a business worth 3/4 of a billion dollars that he built from scratch. He isn't stupid by any means. The issue in my mind is the long range plan. I do think the long range plan changed in the past 6-12 months and I suspect that we haven't seen all of those changes yet. Because it is a weird year with a lockout looming for example Fox is still here. I think Richardson knows what he is going to do and doesn't need Fox to prove anything to decide to keep or replace him. I think that a lot depends on who replaces him, if that occurs. If it is someone internally, we move on without many issues. If someone like Cowher comes in, then there will be plenty more changes on the defensive side.

I think I react to those saying that we are set up long term as if the guys who we have now are going to be here for a number of years, and I am not so sure that is true. I am just pointing that we don't have our core group under contract and that just like we couldn't count on picking up where we left off in January, we might have just undergone part 1 of a multi-step long term plan about which much is still unknown. So I am simply waiting for more of the plan to unfold before I can comment on how much is set up long term versus how much is more or less crisis mode for the present. For example, based simply on the draft and not overpaying for any one position, it will hard to tie up 60 or 70 million into the quarterback spot. So it will be hard to give Clausen a 5 year deal for 20-25 million and then turn around next year and pay Moore a 5 year 50 million deal. Because if Moore has a good year and we don't pay him, somone else will unless we franchise him. Then it begs the question if we tag him, what about Davis and Williams?? And do we want him on a one year deal where he will get around 12 million anyway.

You see what I mean. I just think too many things are up in the air and too many hard decisions will have to made which will change the face of the franchise to decide we are set up long term. And as for Richardson he had plenty of money before and will have it afterwards. Because he is going cheap people seem to assume he is hurting for money and he isn't. We have always been one of the haves, not one of the have nots.

[cookinbrak]

I think there are several owners who like spending as little as they can to field a team. How can Richardson justify raising prices? he doesn't have to justify anything. He is the only game in town and PSL owners are locked into paying for it whether they like it or not. He can pretty much do whatever he wants.

It's bad business to piss off your customers- contracts can always be broken. And Al Davis was of the "I can do whatever I want" mindset until Goodell told him otherwise.

[Razzy]

It's a bit of both. I think the possibility of a lockout was just one of the factors that convinced Jerry the team needs an overhaul.

[panthers55]

It's bad business to piss off your customers- contracts can always be broken. And Al Davis was of the "I can do whatever I want" mindset until Goodell told him otherwise.

No doubt he couldn't just double prices without repercussions. Still he did raise prices this year while cutting payroll and he may put a less than stellar product on the field. Yet I don't see a big outcry. Perhaps that will change if we don't win early this year.

[thefuzz]

It's way more preparing for a lockout and not knowing what the CBA will change from years past.

We could lock up Beason, D Will, and TD right now, but we aren't, and I totally understand why.

[GRWatcher]

We are definitely preparing for the lockout. As for the future that is still up in the air. To date we haven't locked up our core of young players and have little to no one who is under long-term contract. Neither the coaches, staff or the vast majority of key players are signed beyond this year. If we have a change in coach and resultant change in scheme on the defensive side for example, we could have a fruitbowl turnover again next year. I am sure there is master plan but some of the abrupt changes in strategy over the past 12-18 months also suggests that things are in great flux right now. So until this thing shakes out and we see who is here and who isn't, it is hard to say that we are building anything for the future. Most of these current moves are built for the next 12 months. If we sign our players long-term like other teams are beginning to do then perhaps we can talk about 2012. Until then we don't even know who is going to be here.

Other than being young and inexperienced- where are the long-term moves. Most of our young core aren't under contract beyond this year. We are likely not to have our current coach and staff next year and our GM has an extension he hasn't bothered to sign. If we change coaches we are looking as possible major changes in personnel again next year. All of you assume that we are going to lock up all the young guys and move forward as a team. That could happen for sure but right now it hasn't. Long term we have nothing, short term is all there is. Sure we are all hopeful that things will work out as we hoped but the last 6 months have shown me that you can't assume anything. I doubt most anybody would have predicted the changes in the last 6 months. There is no guarantee that the next 6 months don't have as many or more changes in the works.

he is setting up for a lockout..... 1 year contracts, no extensions to young core which we were supposed to be locking up.i am all for sitting back and watching but right now its not looking good.i do believe that td and beason could play in a 3-4 d tho.

I agree with all of this. But if they have gone cheaper on purpose, they at least have done it the right way. And I am truly hoping for a large surprise this year. :coolgleamA:

[carpanfan96]

No doubt he couldn't just double prices without repercussions. Still he did raise prices this year while cutting payroll and he may put a less than stellar product on the field. Yet I don't see a big outcry. Perhaps that will change if we don't win early this year.

I don't see a problem with the ticket price raise, I mean the Panthers are in the bottom 5 in ticket prices and 2nd to last in FCI (family cost index) in the NFL.

[panthers55]

I don't see a problem with the ticket price raise, I mean the Panthers are in the bottom 5 in ticket prices and 2nd to last in FCI (family cost index) in the NFL.

First of all are you a PSL owner? I ask only because if you aren't you don't have a stake in it so of course you don't have a problem with it.

If you are one, then tell me how their costs have gone up to justify the increase? Seems to me their payroll will be down by 15 -20 million this year at least. If it is supply and demand, they are a monopoly so those priciples don't really apply. How many teams raised prices who had a losing record or non winning record last year?

They not only raised prices on 95% of seats but decided that folks in row 15 should pay more than those in row 16. What a scam.

[NanceUSMC]

First of all are you a PSL owner? I ask only because if you aren't you don't have a stake in it so of course you don't have a problem with it.

If you are one, then tell me how their costs have gone up to justify the increase? Seems to me their payroll will be down by 15 -20 million this year at least. If it is supply and demand, they are a monopoly so those priciples don't really apply. How many teams raised prices who had a losing record or non winning record last year?

They not only raised prices on 95% of seats but decided that folks in row 15 should pay more than those in row 16. What a scam.

Buffalo, Chicago, San Francisco, New York, Tennessee, Miami, Seattle, Carolina

[Snake]

I don't believe it's preparing for the lockout quite as much as it is taking the opportunity to dump toxic contracts (not in all cases) in preparation for the players we will need to resign shortly... The preparation for a lockout is simply a byproduct of the moves... That's simply my opinion... Many people misconstrue the Panthers refusal to pursue high profile, high priced free agents as being cheap... I disagree, and instead think it is simply the philosophy of the team... Let's face it, we are continually at or over the alotted cap, and are never 50 million under like some teams are... That ain't cheap... That's smart business...

Also you dont want to dump big money into players that might not be here if we have a new coach in 2011. Whoever takes over the team can build it the way they want and not just have to work with what they have.

[panthers55]

it in unsettling to see that the offense is mostly in place, but most of the contract turmoil is on the defensive side.

though i hope that fox and hurney stay, i can see exactly how things could be shaking up for a new coach next year or 2012. and, for the flexibility for that coach to implement whichever defense he wants.

i hope that richardson keeps fox, or at the very least promotes within the team, and gets hurney to stay. i think he will make a mess if he tries to fix something that isnt broken.

I agree the defense has always been one of our hallmarks. I like the idea of the offense actually getting productive but hate that we gutted the defense. I really think if we had kept most of the defensive guys besides peppers who was leaving no matter what and drafted who we did, we would have been a top 10 team this year. Now I am not so sure. We will have to outscore teams to win which is not one of our traditional strong suits. I think that Fox is gone even if Richardson gives him an offer. He is very proud and not giving him an extension already is similar to what we did when we gave Trgovac an extension at the 11th hour. It is perceived as a slap in the face. If we don't promote from within we are likely to lose all the assistants as well.

[panthers55]

Buffalo, Chicago, San Francisco, New York, Tennessee, Miami, Seattle, Carolina

And how many of these teams are gutting their payroll like we are of 20-30 million? Do you think these teams are on the rise or on the fall like I think we will be this year? I can see with the money Chicago invested in free agents they need to recoup money. And teams like San Francisco, Miami and New York are being talked about like contenders. I don't see anyone but huddle folks expecting us to do well this year.

You mentioned earlier that we were close to the cap in the past, but that is very different from payroll which is what you actually fork out every year. Last year we were at 112 million which was in the middle and I suspect even with dead cap money to Jake and others, we are well below 100 million. Unless other teams dump a bunch of guys we will be in the bottom ten in payroll this year.