Josh Norris: Panthers-Garrett Wilson trade options

[tukafan21]

Just now, jfra78 said:

You're glossing over that he had 1100 yards and 7tds last year which was the only season he had decent QB play. His rookie season he had 1100 yards with 4 different QBs

How am I glossing over that?  I'm not saying he's a bad player, I'm saying there are others better than him and he's not a Top 10 WR in this league now or even in the next handful of years.

Look at the QB situation just this past year for rookies in Nabers and Thomas, neither was good and you could argue Nabers' was worse than Wilson's.  If you want to just compare rookie seasons, I'd say even with a better QB, McConkey had a more impressive rookie season given it was a run first offense and he had better statistics despite missing a game.

Thielen had 1,014 yards last year with maybe the worst QB play for any team in the league over the last decade.  1k yards doesn't mean the same thing that it used to with the 17 game schedule and pass happy offenses in today's game.

And again, that glosses over my big issue with him, he's not a game breaker in the mold of a Jefferson, Chase, Nabers and he doesn't have the size to be a red zone monster either.  So his upside is capped because of both of those things.

He's very good, he's a #1 WR, no doubt about that.  But he's not a Top 10 WR and I don't think he even has that potential in him when you look at the rest of the young WRs in the league right now, too many of them bring things to the game that he just hasn't shown the ability to do yet.

[GoobyPls]

The jets won’t do that, but I would love that trade

[tukafan21]

2 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

The odds that Garrett Wilson is at least as good as DJ Moore are a lot better than the odds that TMac is.  That’s just the reality of the situation.  It doesn’t mean that’s how it will turn out.  But I don’t need 10,000 words to make a simple observation.

It’s the mystery box phenomenon.  You’re a huge fan of the guy.  That’s cool.  But it’s gotten to a level that makes the Tarheel fans look unbiased.

My thoughts on T-Mac are completely irrelevant to the point I'm making at the moment.  Yes, I think T-Mac will be a better prospect, some may not agree, but that's a different discussion.

Right now it's pointing out that people here are WAY over valuing what Wilson is as a player and what his future potential is.  He's very good, he's a #1 WR, but I don't think he ever has Top 10 potential in him.

I'd be okay with trading the 8th pick for Wilson if T-Mac is off the board by then.  But even saying that, as much as I'm anti taking a raw prospect edge rusher at 8, I'd rather do that than trade that pick for Wilson and then give him an extension.

3 years in the league, hasn't missed a game, but the 2nd most yards he has in a game in his career is 115 yards.

In what world is that a Top 10 WR?!?!?!?!

[jfra78]

1 minute ago, tukafan21 said:

My thoughts on T-Mac are completely irrelevant to the point I'm making at the moment.  Yes, I think T-Mac will be a better prospect, some may not agree, but that's a different discussion.

Right now it's pointing out that people here are WAY over valuing what Wilson is as a player and what his future potential is.  He's very good, he's a #1 WR, but I don't think he ever has Top 10 potential in him.

I'd be okay with trading the 8th pick for Wilson if T-Mac is off the board by then.  But even saying that, as much as I'm anti taking a raw prospect edge rusher at 8, I'd rather do that than trade that pick for Wilson and then give him an extension.

3 years in the league, hasn't missed a game, but the 2nd most yards he has in a game in his career is 115 yards.

In what world is that a Top 10 WR?!?!?!?!

I'm not sure who said he is a top 10 WR, I only said he is a proven #1 and I will take that over getting a maybe #1 who's best asset is something Bryce won't ever exploit.  

[tukafan21]

2 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

I'm not sure who said he is a top 10 WR, I only said he is a proven #1 and I will take that over getting a maybe #1 who's best asset is something Bryce won't ever exploit.  

Explain this part.

Because I don't think you logically can, as I've pointed out numerous times, what T-Mac does best is actually a PERFECT pairing for Bryce.

You go first as I'm very curious what you're going to say, I'll then counter.

Edited 2 hours ago by tukafan21

[Aussie Tank]

Can we stop mentioning Megatron and being a better WR than Mike Evans while talking about TMac it's embarrassing 

[jfra78]

1 hour ago, tukafan21 said:

Explain this part.

Because I don't think you logically can, as I've pointed out numerous times, what T-Mac does best is actually a PERFECT pairing for Bryce.

You go first as I'm very curious what you're going to say, I'll then counter.

Bryce doesn't throw the 50/50 ball.  The best part of Bryces game is finding the open reciever with anticipation

[tukafan21]

26 minutes ago, Aussie Tank said:

Can we stop mentioning Megatron and being a better WR than Mike Evans while talking about TMac it's embarrassing 

What's embarrassing is that you can't separate Evans' totality of his career statistics with any individual season(s).  Evans is a HOFer because of his consistently great play, but he has maybe 2 actual elite seasons in his career.  

Also that you can't seem to separate using one aspect of a particular player's game and saying someone is the best prospect at doing that since then, despite not even claiming that he's better than Calvin at said aspect of his game.

You hate when I say that about T-Mac having the best catch radius as a prospect since Calvin... so tell me this... what WR prospects have had a better catch radius than T-Mac since Calvin?

You hate that I use Calvin's name, even though I've never once compared T-Mac to him on the whole and am likely correct that since Calvin came into the league, if only looking at catch radius (the only thing I've ever compared T-Mac and Calvin with), T-Mac would be the best since then.

[Shocker]

Wilson is known and a top WR.  I’d do this trade but would want a #2 next year.

Wilson would be a top 5 pick in this draft without question 

Edited 54 minutes ago by Shocker

[Shocker]

17 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

Bryce doesn't throw the 50/50 ball.  The best part of Bryces game is finding the open reciever with anticipation

Bryce makes every throw, one day morons are going to see this and respect his talent.  

[tukafan21]

17 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

Bryce doesn't throw the 50/50 ball.  The best part of Bryces game is finding the open reciever with anticipation

So, two issues with that, the first is that the 50/50 ball (in general) is probably not T-Mac's best asset (although it is his 3rd).  And I say that "in general" because the deep ball is his best asset, which yes, part of which is the 50/50 aspect of the type of deep ball he specializes in.

The bigger issue is this... who the F*** on our team the last 2 years is a player Bryce would ever trust to throw a 50/50 ball to?!?!  That's not Thielen's game and it sure as hell isn't a pass Bryce is going to throw to XL, Coker, Johnson, or Chark.

T-Mac has 2 things that could be argued as his best assets.

His best being the deep ball and the other being his catch radius (with a close 3rd on contested catch ability).

There are two types of deep ball specialists in today's game, the Tyreek type who can run past the defense and the QB throws it as far as possible for them to run under, and the Mike Evans type where the QB chucks it and it's up to the WR to out jump and high point the ball over the defender.

T-Mac is the latter and Bryce doesn't have the arm to properly use the former.  Hence why T-Mac's best ability, those deep jump balls, are PERFECT for Bryce, who can throw it 50-60 yards in a heave, but can't just out throw the defense for a speedster to run under it.

His catch radius is also a PERFECT fit for Bryce, again, because he doesn't have a rifle for an arm, but he's great at placing the ball where he wants with touch (it's actually probably Bryce's best asset).  Bryce throwing those high and outside throws towards the sideline paired with T-Mac's size, catch radius, and hands would be a lethal combination, particularly on 3rd down and in the Red Zone.

[csx]

I'd rather use it on defense.

[tukafan21]

9 minutes ago, Shocker said:

Wilson is known and a top WR.  I’d do this trade but would want a #2 next year.

Wilson would be a top 5 pick in this draft without question 

Throw every current WR in the league into a new draft of only WRs and I honestly don't think Wilson is getting taken in the Top 15, certainly not in the Top 10.

If you want to argue that Wilson's floor is higher than T-Mac's because he's already proven to be a 1k yard WR in the league, I'll accept that on the basis of proven vs potential alone.  

But T-Mac's ceiling is 100% higher than Wilson's and it's not even close.

Edited 47 minutes ago by tukafan21

[Aussie Tank]

6 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

What's embarrassing is that you can't separate Evans' totality of his career statistics with any individual season(s).  Evans is a HOFer because of his consistently great play, but he has maybe 2 actual elite seasons in his career.  

Also that you can't seem to separate using one aspect of a particular player's game and saying someone is the best prospect at doing that since then, despite not even claiming that he's better than Calvin at said aspect of his game.

You hate when I say that about T-Mac having the best catch radius as a prospect since Calvin... so tell me this... what WR prospects have had a better catch radius than T-Mac since Calvin?

You hate that I use Calvin's name, even though I've never once compared T-Mac to him on the whole and am likely correct that since Calvin came into the league, if only looking at catch radius (the only thing I've ever compared T-Mac and Calvin with), T-Mac would be the best since then.

Nah it's pretty embarrassing that your calling him a better receiving talent than Mike Evans when he's not even a better draft prospect. Let alone the 100 touchdowns and 12000 odd yards