Impact Rookies in Playoffs (Beyond Round 1)

[d-dave]

Well, hindsight is 20/20.  If you don't learn from the past, you will continue to make mistakes today.

So much of the draft is projection.  How well will this play fit our system?  How much room does he have to grow?  There are a handful of ready made products, then the rest are the results of coaching and opportunity.

XL is a great athlete.  He moves different.  But he's a body catcher.  That's going to limit him until he learns to use his hands, or plays a different WR position.  They also loved the guy.  I'm guessing he would fit in with the culture Canales is creating.

Brooks was the run away #1 RB except that he was hurt.  We saw in his limited time that the dude moves differently.  Hrm...Interesting that both XL and Brooks do that...  Brooks was going to get drafted high.  That's just the way it is with talent.

I think there was a bit of a stylistic choice: get guys who can create because of their physical abilities.  Was this the right direction?  I don't know.  To be honest, none of us will know for a bit yet.  Brooks getting hurt again sucks.  Will he be the same guy?  I don't know.

I fully agree with taking the best players, maybe not the most talent physical specimens.  At the same time, they have the keys.  It's up to Morgan, Canales and Brandt to get it done.  It's their jobs on the line.  Their reputations.

[TD alt]

3 hours ago, 45catfan said:

I liked: McConkey, DeJean, Fiske, Frazier, McMillan and Franklin.   All three of the WRs had better tape than XL, yet we traded up and took the guy that needed the most development.  GM, scouts and coaches can't help themselves when trying to 'mold' underdeveloped players. Take the freaking layup and draft the more polished player!

I mean, if that's what you consider "significant." In reference to the WRs, some of these guys are playing because someone is hurt. I've been watching these guys, and though their teams were playing, the only receiver that really made a significant impact is Ladd McConkey. The other guys have been brought along pretty slowly. McMillan obviously had to get more play because of Godwin. The jury is hardly out on any of them, save for McConkey who is obviously the real deal. 

[TD alt]

We should've taken McConkey over XL. His game would've fit perfectly with Bryce's game, and both are high football IQ guys. But, it's still really too early to be making definitive statements about most of these players in general. You probably want to give it at least a couple of seasons, if not three. And keep in mind that some guys are alwats going to learn quicker, and some positions are simply just easier to learn.

[45catfan]

11 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

We never take the layup. We like half court behind the back trick shots. They're probably looking at some small school QB they want to convert to WR as we speak.

Armanti Edwards finished up his college eligiblity? Lol!  His name immediately popped into my head when you said that. I'm not sure if that was the intended reference, but yeah, pretty spot on.

[Shotgun]

1 minute ago, 45catfan said:

Armanti Edwards finished up his college eligiblity? Lol!  His name immediately popped into my head when you said that. I'm not sure if that was the intended reference, but yeah, pretty spot on.

I remember when we drafted him, the guys calling the draft looked at each other with bewilderment. We traded up for him on top of it. lol the panthers. 

[45catfan]

14 minutes ago, TD alt said:

I mean, if that's what you consider "significant." In reference to the WRs, some of these guys are playing because someone is hurt. I've been watching these guys, and though their teams were playing, the only receiver that really made a significant impact is Ladd McConkey. The other guys have been brought along pretty slowly. McMillan obviously had to get more play because of Godwin. The jury is hardly out on any of them, save for McConkey who is obviously the real deal. 

McMillan and Franklin weren't first rounders.  Apples to apples, Ladd looks better.  While,yes, he went at the top of second round #34 overall, when we moved up--XL, Coleman and McConkey were the choices and we took XL.   The move up wasn't the main problem, the player that was the rawest of the three that we drafted was my gripe.

[Shotgun]

2 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

McMillan and Franklin weren't first rounders.  Apples to apples, Ladd looks better.  While,yes, he went at the top of second round #34 overall, when we moved up--XL, Coleman and McConkey were the choices and we took XL.   The move up wasn't the main problem, the player that was the rawest of the three that we drafted was my gripe.

I think our front office prioritizes small game hunting skills higher than most teams. 

[Bear Hands]

Responding to some -

I'd say it's less about classifying a player as a boom/bust and more understanding the level at which rookies are thought of and trusted by organizations around the league.  These are the best teams in the league and they're putting decent trust in the big moments with less experienced guys, whether due to an injury or genuinely earning their playing time.  

We've had a tendency to look a bit longer term with a lot of picks in hopes the upside can be hit.  Which is fine I guess, but our track record is getting really bad so maybe we should stop lol. 

Thing is, you have a guy that fell who could be a great boost (Ladd, Newton, DeJean, Lassiter, etc.) and we stick with the guy we love and have a bit of tunnel-vision for.  It seems to be a trend here...getting too locked in on "our guy" and not seeing how the chips fall.  I often wonder if the Fit/Morgan era years would have taken Star when he fell to us in his draft.  

The funny thing with this last draft is that I feel like we struck a good pick with Trevin & Sanders.  But XL and Brooks really did feel forced.  Morgan was predetermined to get both by whatever means. 

My hope for 2025: we fall in love a bit less with prospects and are able to assess in-the-moment a bit better.  

[jfra78]

No mention of Peyton Wilson

[TD alt]

All I'm saying is that, like every team every year,  we can re-judicate every draft, but it's going to take time to actually get a clear picture. 

[Bear Hands]

13 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

No mention of Peyton Wilson

Solely to anger the Wolfpack contingent lol

[45catfan]

8 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

Solely to anger the Wolfpack contingent lol

I've barked up that tree regarding Brooks and Wilson.  It's hypocritical to take guys off your board/severely downgraded them due to past injuries (currently healthy) only to draft another player who was actively rehabbing from injury. Our front office is so damn incompetent.

I like Morgan, but dude HAS TO do better this time around or he can go hang out with his buddy Scott Fitterer.

[thunderraiden]

4 hours ago, Bear Hands said:

The short version: We need to draft better

The long: "You can't expect day 2 or 3 guys to make an impact".  Well, beyond the 1st rounders (Daniels, Quinyon, Barton, etc.), these are dudes with significant playing time or starters in the playoffs for solid squads.  I'm probably not even hitting them all.  

This tells me you absolutely can and should target impact guys in R2-3 at a variety of spots.  We absolutely need to break this round 2-3 torment we put ourselves in.  

Just check this out..post-R1 rookies WITH SIGNIFICANT PLAYING TIME this weekend:

Keon Coleman WR - BUF R2

Ladd McConkey WR - LAC R2

Johnny Newton DL - WAS R2

Mike Sainristil DB - WAS R2

Cooper DeJean DB - PHI - R2

Braden Fiske DL - LAR - R2

Kamari Lassiter DB - HOU - R2

Zach Frazier C - PIT - R2

Blake Fisher OT - HOU - R2

Edgerin Cooper LB - GB R2

Javon Bullard DB - GB - R2

Jalen McMillan WR - TB R3

Jalyx Hunt DE - PHI R3

Kamren Kitchens DB - LAR R3

Calen Bullock DB - HOU R3

Troy Franklin WR - DEN R4

Beaux Limmer C - LAR R6

 

 

This is dumb, these are all the positions that were backloaded in the draft and would have been R1-2 talent in most drafts. This is why you see some of us this year going draft Tet or trade back and get an edge because the position is loaded at edge this year, yeah we need an edge but outside of Carter they are all the same and a decent Round 1 edge in this draft can be found in R2 much like CB was last year.

[Bear Hands]

1 minute ago, 45catfan said:

I've barked up that tree regarding Brooks and Wilson.  It's hypocritical to take guys off your board/severely downgraded them due to past injuries (currently healthy) only to draft another player who was actively rehabbing from injury. Our front office is so damn incompetent.

I like Morgan, but dude HAS TO do better this time around or he can go hang out with his buddy Scott Fitterer.

I'd argue Wilson's risk is inherently different given he had a reconstruction & revision on his knee, he also had surgery on both shoulders and was an older prospect at 24.  Teams were hesitant, and at their own detriment, because he's balling out.  And he was still a top-100 guy so it's not like some Trey Smith type fall.