Question about McCown and Moore

[Cyberjag]

For some reason, I don't believe you when you say that.

Believe it. I would love to see him put up some good numbers next year, and even the year after. I believe that both Clausen and Pike have it in them to develop into good NFL starters, but they both need time (Pike more than Clausen). If either is ready, and if Moore can hold them off it's nothing but good for the Panthers.

Even if he can't, if he plays really well under real pressure next year then that just means more trade value for us down the road.

[NanceUSMC]

Nance, I feel like we're on the same wavelength here.

It could be a "surfer" attitude that doesn't play well with the coaches, but works in the huddle. Whatever it is though, I hope it's been identified, pointed out, and he's given the opportunity to correct it. He just got the team, it would suck to see him lose it right away.

I HOPE that Clausen doesn't get handed the keys this year... I personally feel, without having solid numbers to back it up, that the best chance a rookie QB has to succeed in this league is when he sits for a while before getting thrust into the show... Even if Moore struggles, even if the team starts slow, even if things are going bad......... I hope they give Clausen enough time to 'grow up' in the league before putting too much on him... In a perfect world, though, Moore has a great season and is the starter all year... Clausen goes through the season as the #2 (Pike the #3), and is allowed to acclimate to the league and team... Then at the end of the season we either sign Moore to a long term contract to be the team's #2 QB, or he gets a hefty contract to start for another club, and Clausen steps in as the starter here... Regardless though, I hope Clausen is allowed to mature a bit before taking over... Worst thing in the world for a QB is to get pushed in before it's time... I still feel Collins could have been great, if he'd been allowed to grow up... Same can be said for any number of other 'bust' QB's from Ryan Leaf to Heath Shuler...

[Fox007]

Sensitivity doesn't belong on this team anymore, the best player should play, I could give a damn who I "like" more.

The way I see it, it's not Moore's team, it's a battle to see whose team it is now.

Best player.......plays.....

[DawgzLife]

If McCown was asked to come back, do you think he would be our day one starter? Moore couldn't beat him in Training Camp for two years running. Anyone have a guess why?

Please don't litter this thread with "Fox sucks!" and various other conspiracy theories.

What's wrong with Moore, anyway? In the coach's minds at least.

The simple answer? Fox doesn't trust yound unproven players. It is a fault of his. He is getting better at pulling the trigger earlier, but still has work to do.

What "Was" wrong with Moore? He hadn't proven anything. Nothing is wrong with him now. Now Clausen has the problem....he is unproven in the NFL. Moore will start this year...count on it.

[Cyberjag]

I HOPE that Clausen doesn't get handed the keys this year... I personally feel, without having solid numbers to back it up, that the best chance a rookie QB has to succeed in this league is when he sits for a while before getting thrust into the show... Even if Moore struggles, even if the team starts slow, even if things are going bad......... I hope they give Clausen enough time to 'grow up' in the league before putting too much on him... In a perfect world, though, Moore has a great season and is the starter all year... Clausen goes through the season as the #2 (Pike the #3), and is allowed to acclimate to the league and team... Then at the end of the season we either sign Moore to a long term contract to be the team's #2 QB, or he gets a hefty contract to start for another club, and Clausen steps in as the starter here... Regardless though, I hope Clausen is allowed to mature a bit before taking over... Worst thing in the world for a QB is to get pushed in before it's time... I still feel Collins could have been great, if he'd been allowed to grow up... Same can be said for any number of other 'bust' QB's from Ryan Leaf to Heath Shuler...

You had me until Ryan Leaf...

[NanceUSMC]

The simple answer? Fox doesn't trust yound unproven players. It is a fault of his. He is getting better at pulling the trigger earlier, but still has work to do.

What "Was" wrong with Moore? He hadn't proven anything. Nothing is wrong with him now. Now Clausen has the problem....he is unproven in the NFL. Moore will start this year...count on it.

Not sure I agree with that take... I know it seems that way sometimes, but there have been plenty of rookies under the Fox regime that have stepped in right away... Beason, Gross, Gamble, Otah, etc... I do agree, though, that he has a tendency to hang on a bit too long to vets that need some pine time...

[Cyberjag]

The simple answer? Fox doesn't trust yound unproven players. It is a fault of his. He is getting better at pulling the trigger earlier, but still has work to do.

What "Was" wrong with Moore? He hadn't proven anything. Nothing is wrong with him now. Now Clausen has the problem....he is unproven in the NFL. Moore will start this year...count on it.

Fox doesn't trust young, unproven players like Peppers, Foster, Gross, Manning Jr., Gamble, Colbert, Wharton, Williams, Marshall, Beason, Stewart, Otah, Godfrey, and Munnerlyn, right? All of those players got substantial playing time during their rookie years. That's a lame and easily discarded characterization, and I really hoped it wouldn't surface in this thread.

And Moore proved he could win games for the Panthers in 2007, but in 2008 he was third on the depth chart before getting hurt, and in 2009 he was third again. The point of the thread is to ask why.

[NanceUSMC]

You had me until Ryan Leaf...

LOL

No no... Just wondering if he could have dealt with things better had he not been given the keys from day one... lol At least think his CHANCES of success would have been higher... =)

[Woodie]

If McCown was asked to come back, do you think he would be our day one starter? Moore couldn't beat him in Training Camp for two years running. Anyone have a guess why?

I'm honestly interested in what the coaching staff's perception of Moore is that had them wait so long to trust in him to run the team. I truly believe that if they had the confidence in him that they had in Jake in 2003, he would have been playing a lot earlier. I also think that if McCown hadn't gotten hurt he would have played a lot earlier.

Instead, although Delhomme's injury seemed awful convenient, it looked like they waited until they absolutely had to before they gave Moore the keys. And this is with his rookie performance in mind, of course.

And what does that say about Moore's chance to hold the job versus Clausen?

Please don't litter this thread with "Fox sucks!" and various other conspiracy theories. And Jake is gone, leave the bashing for other threads. And don't credit him with winning the games singlehandedly, in all four of his victories we held our opponents to under 10 points. That's a winning formula in and of itself.

What's wrong with Moore, anyway? In the coach's minds at least.

I think the problem the coaching staff has with Moore is their perception of his work ethic and dedication. I have seen several interviews with him, as well as heard things from others who have access to the team, and not once have I ever gotten the impression that he puts in the time or commits himself to being as great as he can be. From all indications, he's not a gym or film rat. So if you add his laid back attitude to his lack of dedication, you get a guy that is about as opposite to what Fox likes in his players as you can get...particularly from the leader of the team.

Further evidence, I believe, can be gained from what some current players said to Dan Morgan about Moore not completely knowing the playbook. While I don't think it was necessarily his lack of knowledge they were talking about, but the fact that they don't feel he puts in enough work. Of course this is all speculation, but if you put all the little tidbits together, a picture starts to emerge of a player who not "all in."

Basically, I just don't think the coaching staff completely trusts him at this point. And I would be willing to bet that if we had another average QB on the roster, Moore, at best, would have gotten the single 1st tender (and maybe even only the 2nd), but since we literally have nothing else, they couldn't afford to risk losing him.

[Guest Jacob3-89]

McCown?.... starter over wait.. what..... hold on wtf?.. i'd rather see pike start

[R0CKnR0LLA]

[R0CKnR0LLA]

[panthers55]

Fox doesn't trust young, unproven players like Peppers, Foster, Gross, Manning Jr., Gamble, Colbert, Wharton, Williams, Marshall, Beason, Stewart, Otah, Godfrey, and Munnerlyn, right? All of those players got substantial playing time during their rookie years. That's a lame and easily discarded characterization, and I really hoped it wouldn't surface in this thread.

And Moore proved he could win games for the Panthers in 2007, but in 2008 he was third on the depth chart before getting hurt, and in 2009 he was third again. The point of the thread is to ask why.

This year Moore will be the starter and his results last year were the reason plain and simple. Why wasn't he the guy before? He never did anything to instill that much confidence before he was put in and played so well in 4 of the 5 games. In 2007 he helped us win games but his numbers weren't that good and he was playing with less than half of the playbook. In 2008 before he got hurt, he looked terrible. And again this preseason look at his numbers. Not very good at all.

But he now has shown Fox that he can play and win in this league which is all that matters. So he will start and deservedly so. But all the comparisons to the past really don't hold water or make a case that we would start a guy like McCown over him at this point.

[Woodie]

I HOPE that Clausen doesn't get handed the keys this year... I personally feel, without having solid numbers to back it up, that the best chance a rookie QB has to succeed in this league is when he sits for a while before getting thrust into the show... Even if Moore struggles, even if the team starts slow, even if things are going bad......... I hope they give Clausen enough time to 'grow up' in the league before putting too much on him... In a perfect world, though, Moore has a great season and is the starter all year... Clausen goes through the season as the #2 (Pike the #3), and is allowed to acclimate to the league and team... Then at the end of the season we either sign Moore to a long term contract to be the team's #2 QB, or he gets a hefty contract to start for another club, and Clausen steps in as the starter here... Regardless though, I hope Clausen is allowed to mature a bit before taking over... Worst thing in the world for a QB is to get pushed in before it's time... I still feel Collins could have been great, if he'd been allowed to grow up... Same can be said for any number of other 'bust' QB's from Ryan Leaf to Heath Shuler...

I actually think he does get handed the keys right away...much to the chagrin of many Panther fans (or should I say Moore fans). I had this whole write-up on why, but realized it is as simple as the fact that they feel Clausen is the future, and Moore is not. Also, based on how they have behaved regarding Moore, along with their giddiness over Clausen, I think they trust Clausen more than Moore. And last, but not least, I think they just can't wait to try out the new toy they just bought.

Of course, this is all contingent on Clausen not bombing during training camp...which I seriously doubt will happen.