Anyone left who does not believe in Bryce ?

[frankw]

Just now, Joe Bear said:

I don't even think the dude's that great, but these are some truly retarded takes from people who hate their favorite team with a passion.

You worry far too much about what other people think about Young.

Take a break.

[Joe Bear]

Just now, Paper Bagged Fan said:

I don't move goal posts .. despite Bryce's 'awesome' second half his career stats are garbage is what I'm saying .. he even has less YPG in '24 than abysmal rookie year

Trevor Lawrence's QB rating is only slightly better, and his rating as a rookie was even worse than Young's. Not saying he's an All-Pro, but I bet you don't think Young's 9/10 as good as him, either.

[Joe Bear]

1 minute ago, frankw said:

You worry far too much about what other people think about Young.

Take a break.

How'd I know you'd be back in my notifications?

[Paper Bagged Fan]

Just now, Joe Bear said:

Trevor Lawrence's QB rating is only slightly better, and his rating as a rookie was even worse than Young's. Not saying he's an All-Pro, but I bet you don't think Young's 9/10 as good as him, either.

I think Trevor Lawrence is garbage and I think Young is garbage .. I never liked Lawrence either

[Joe Bear]

Just now, Paper Bagged Fan said:

I think Trevor Lawrence is garbage and I think Young is garbage .. I never liked Lawrence either

He ain't garbage, but he's definitely not the once-in-a-generation player people thought he was.

[KSpan]

3 hours ago, Navy_football said:

Why do some of you feel like you have to disprove the legitimacy of anything that paints Bryce Young in a positive light? Kinda weird when he's the QB of the team you root for and he showed huge improvement his second season. Is it just a habit now?

I just find that particular esoteric 'stat' to be an eyeroll for any QB and make fun of it wherever it pops up, always have. The fact that it was tossed out ad nauseum across Pantherland these last weeks led to my sarcastic comment. Bryce played better for sure, but the BIG TIME THROWS stat itself is silly in any context.

[*FreeFua*]

Doesn’t fit my narrative so I think it’s silly 

Edited 5 hours ago by *FreeFua*

[tukafan21]

29 minutes ago, Joe Bear said:

I really don't see how you can say Young sucks because of his 2023 stats, while conveniently ignoring his 2024 stats after he was benched -- then act like you're dunking on someone? That's so weird.

Don't bring up Week 18 as it's just a single game, and show me these amazing stats he's put up besides that which we're conveniently ignoring?

In those 9 games after being benched and before week 18 he had 126, 158, 171, 191, 203, 219, 224, 263, and 298 yards passing with 12 TDs and 6 INTs.  In those 9 games he also only had 3 games over 61.5% completions.  Even the 298 yard game was only his 6th best YPA game over those final 10 games of the season too, with a 56.5% completion, so it's not like he did it efficiently (and it was against the 4th worst pass defense in the league).

I'm not even saying you can't say he showed significant improvement over these final 10 games, because he has and I've admitted as much numerous times.

But trying to use stats as the proof isn't the way to go, as statistically he was still below average over those 10 games.  

[tukafan21]

47 minutes ago, Joe Bear said:

I saw Young put his team in a position to win (and does so if Legette could catch) against Philadelphia's defense. It appears they statistically have the best defense in the NFL. Are they a poor defense?

Statistically, Bryce had 191 yards on 55.9% completions with 1 TD, 1 INT, and a 69.6 passer rating in the game.

You keep wanting to point to statistics to back up your claims of Bryce being good, but when you actually look at the statistics themselves, they don't show him to be a statistically successful passer.

Again, if you want to defend Bryce and his improved play over the final 10 games, feel free to do it.  But don't try and point to statistics to back that claim up, because the actual on paper statistics do anything but that.

[Joe Bear]

4 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Statistically, Bryce had 191 yards on 55.9% completions with 1 TD, 1 INT, and a 69.6 passer rating in the game.

You keep wanting to point to statistics to back up your claims of Bryce being good, but when you actually look at the statistics themselves, they don't show him to be a statistically successful passer.

Again, if you want to defend Bryce and his improved play over the final 10 games, feel free to do it.  But don't try and point to statistics to back that claim up, because the actual on paper statistics do anything but that.

I wasn't using them to back up a claim of him even being good, just top 20-top 25.

[KatsAzz]

When Bryce Young got another shot to start to his credit, he seized it.

Bryce looked rejuvenated and much more assured. The poise and confidence he displayed over the second half of 2024 were night and day to anything witnessed previously. There was also a newfound swagger that became impossible to ignore.

He's got some work ahead during the offseason, but the Panthers now have hope where once there was nothing but pessimism.

[tukafan21]

9 minutes ago, Joe Bear said:

I wasn't using them to back up a claim of him even being good, just top 20-top 25.

Again, if Bryce's ceiling is as a Top 20-25 QB (which is right were I've said he will end up numerous times), we should be trading him for the best offer this season and going full rebuild, as I've said I wanted to do for a while now.

If your QB is the 20-25th best QB in the NFL, you're in NFL purgatory.  Never bad enough to have a Top 3-5 pick to get a new elite QB prospect and never good enough to actually be contenders.

I want the Panthers to win games, but if the options are blowing it up and going full on rebuild or getting stuck in NFL purgatory, I'm going with the rebuild as it's the better chance at ever getting to and winning a SB.

Today's NFL isn't the one where the Bucs and Ravens can win SB's with the likes of Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer as QBs.  That type of game manager just isn't going to get it done unless you have the PERFECT roster built around them.  And even if you do get lucky to put that roster around them, you probably only have a 1-2 year window to contend before you can't afford to keep that team together under the cap.

Basically, the 49ers with Purdy, except Purdy is better than Bryce and Canales isn't Shannahan.  And look at how much of a mess that team is going to be in a couple of years, they had their window to win with Purdy on a rookie deal, but that window might have already closed.

Edited 5 hours ago by tukafan21

[Joe Bear]

2 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Again, if Bryce's ceiling is as a Top 20-25 QB (which is right were I've said he will end up numerous times), we should be trading him for the best offer this season and going full rebuild, as I've said I wanted to do for a while now.

If your QB is the 20-25th best QB in the NFL, you're in NFL purgatory.  Never bad enough to have a Top 3-5 pick to get a new elite QB prospect and never good enough to actually be contenders.

Today's NFL isn't the one where the Bucs and Ravens can win SB's with the likes of Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer as QBs.  That type of game manager just isn't going to get it done unless you have the PERFECT roster built around them.  And even if you do get lucky to put that roster around them, you probably only have a 1-2 year window to contend before you can't afford to keep that team together under the cap.

Basically, the 49ers with Purdy, except Purdy is better than Bryce and Canales isn't Shannahan.

Other than his most ardent detractors -- of which you've admitted to being one -- there's an understanding among everyone that Young's done enough to deserve Year 3 as the starter and to go from there. If he keeps an upward trajectory, trading him would be stupid. If he doesn't, he'll play you into his replacement. That's just too logical to not explore first, even if it means people have to hate-watch for longer than they wanted.

[mav1234]

2 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Don't bring up Week 18 as it's just a single game, and show me these amazing stats he's put up besides that which we're conveniently ignoring?

In those 9 games after being benched and before week 18 he had 126, 158, 171, 191, 203, 219, 224, 263, and 298 yards passing with 12 TDs and 6 INTs.  In those 9 games he also only had 3 games over 61.5% completions.  Even the 298 yard game was only his 6th best YPA game over those final 10 games of the season too, with a 56.5% completion, so it's not like he did it efficiently (and it was against the 4th worst pass defense in the league).

I'm not even saying you can't say he showed significant improvement over these final 10 games, because he has and I've admitted as much numerous times.

But trying to use stats as the proof isn't the way to go, as statistically he was still below average over those 10 games.  

He wasn't in aggregate below average. The NFL average was about 215 yards/game on 32ish attempts per game, with about 1.5 TDs per game. Bryce is pretty close to that - slightly low on yards, at that on TDs, and that's before you including his rushing (where he ends up over in both).  He had the 5th most rushing TDs of any QB this year, despite his low attempts and fewer games.  His 2 TDs/game puts him quite far above the average.

There's no reason to remove his best game in several categories unless you also did it to his worst, when comparing him to the average.  If we throw in his other games from before the benching, tho, he's below the average by quite a bit.