A Perspective of the Roster (Red Meat to chew on)

[MHS831]

ONE PERSPECTIVE, Based on needs, some flashes I noticed down the stretch.  Agree, disagree, add something?  Remember, the draft is basically 3 picks and free agency is based on our cap.  Be realistic.

CB

Mike Jackson (he he):  He was rated at 68 on PFF and no CB played more snaps (1200).  With Horn, Jackson is a solid #2.

Akayleb Evans (25) and Shemar Bartholomew (24): longshots to make the roster in 2025, I was impressed with both at times.  SB's coverage of Evans in man was excellent, but since Evans caught the ball, he was probably downgraded.  Small sample size for both, but depth at CB is important.  I really like them, especially SB.  Both upgrades over Dane Jackson. FWIW, Caleb Farley scored a 56.1 in about 170 snaps and did not do much to earn a roster spot in 2025 at CB--but could he play a different position?  see (S).

NOTE:  If the Panthers can get Mike Jackson back, they are pretty good at starting CB but very thin at the position.  Wade-Smith is next up, and we need better. 

DE/DT

Sam Roberts:  Very small sample size, but he was effective.  At 26 he is a longshot and may be a PS player at best, maybe there is something there?

A'Shawn Robinson:  He is under contract and will be 30, but he gets pressure on the QB, with 24 pressures this season.  Not a great DT/DE in terms of stuffing the run, but he would be a valuable rotational piece.  I am including this about Robinson because I would let Ray, Tuttle, and D. Williams go.  Tuttle sucked and his cap hit is $9m.  Post June cut saves us $6.5m. 

NOTE: We get Brown back, but we need 2 more Defensive Hog Mollies. Brown, a stud DT/NT, A Robinson and another DE would be solid.

OLB

Jadaveon Clowney and DJ Wonnum:  They are under contract, but will add about $10m to the cap to keep them.  Worth it?  I say "yes" but we need to address the position and rookie OLBs tend to struggle.  May be a necessary expense.  Wonnum is a potential extension, but he is average at best---good at QB pressures and holds a decent edge.

Amare Barno was injured and could be solid depth; not sure DJ Johnson is worth the roster spot. 

NOTE:  I think the Panthers will add up to 2 Edge players to the roster and carry Barno, Clowney, and Wonnum.

ILB

Josey Jewell had 68 tackles and a 56 PFF score.  Trevin Wallace had a 56 PFF score and 43 tackles--not good. Bad DTs?  Probably.  However, Jewell will be 31, but his roster spot is secure.  Our Safeties and CBs made most of the tackles. Where have you gone, Sam Morgeasonluke?  I don't see Shaq coming back, at 31.

Jacoby Windmon is 23 and showed some flashes that he could be sound depth.  He made 11 tackles in 128 snaps--that is about 9% of each play.  Chandler Wooten was terrible. 

Note:  People are not really talking about ILB, but it is a big need.  Look for 2 additions to the roster, one from the draft (deep).

S

Jordan Fuller UFA.  was subpar for a veteran S.  Will be 28.

Lonnie Johnson?  UFA and gone as well.  Will be 30.

Xavier Woods ?  UFA.  PFF score 57.  3 picks.  Not sure he is going to be offered a contract--overpaid in 2024.  Will be 30.

Nick Scott?  UFA.  PFF score 53.  Will be 30.

Sam Franklin?  UFA.  Will be 29. 

NOTE:  I see no player I would re-sign.  This is why I wanted to see the Panthers give Caleb Farley a look at S.  NO S on the PS or IR.  The cupboards are empty.  Fuller may have to be re-signed, or Woods.  Do not want either.

OVERALL DEFENSIVE ASSESSMENT:  I am shocked to realize how much turnover we are about to see--We have no safeties, few ILBs, CBs, and DL.  We have Morgan (defensive player) who loves "Dawgs," looking into this.

QB

Bryce Young.  Slated to be the starter.   Not sure Dalton is coming back.

RB

Miles Sanders.  Can be post June 1 cut and save the team $6m.  Has no market value.  Would probably take a team-friendly deal, or cut him.  Lotta good young RBs in the draft, but if you can get a veteran behind Chuba for $2m (negotiated down from $8m), you consider it.  However, with no guaranteed salary, I see him done in Carolina.

NOTE:  You have to pick up a RB or two, and since we have so many defensive needs, I am not sure we do anything before day 3 if at all--renegotiating with Sanders might be the smart play--not sure.

TE

Tommy Tremble is an UFA.  He had 200+ yards receiving this season and knows the system.  Let him shop himself, but I would offer the vet minimum.

NOTE: This offense needs a stud TE as much as it needs a stud WR.  Sanders should be the #2, but is TE enough of a need to address it now? 

WR

Xavier Legette scored 4 TDs on about 500 yards (PFF score 59.3)  He needs to double those numbers in 2025, and I expect it--raw players can have bigger jumps from year 1 to year 2.  That also applies to Jalen Coker who had a 72.8 PFF grade and 478 yards and 2 TDs.  I expect both to double up those numbers.  Adam Theilen (615 yards, 5 TDs, 76.4 PFF grade) would round out the core.

David Moore is an UFA, but he could be brought back on the cheap, in my view.  He will be 30.

NOTE: Of course, the Panthers need to add a WR, but if the rookies improve, the WR corps should be respectable.  It is my view that a good possession WR that runs good routes and has good hands would be enough--just not ideal.  An elite TE, in my view, would impact the offense more.

OL

Cade Mays is a decent starting center right now, but after he works as a starter through camp at one position, you will see improvement.  He was top 10 in pass protection among 64 centers.  With Bryce, that is the most important aspect of his game.  I am elated by the way he developed in a partial season.  Love him.

The rest of the OL is under contract--big ones, but contracts.

Brady Christensen UFA needs to be re-signed.  In my view, he should be our swing OT and nothing else.  Why?  Zavala has played much better all year, culminating in a starting performance vs. the Falcons that was great. 

Chandler Zavala: So how good was Chandler Zavala in spot duty this season?  You weren't paying attention because you were telling everyone that "he sucks".  PFF:  Pass blocking--73.9, run blocking 71.9.  We have depth at G, folks.

NOTE:  We need one depth position, in my opinion--C.  In my view, we have a few guys on the roster who can compete for the backup C position, if BC is not your guy.  Jarrett Kingston and Andrew Raym. 

OFFENSIVE OVERVIEW:  We must add a WR or two, a TE, a RB, and a backup QB.  In relation to the draft and salary cap, most of these needs are not primary needs like we see on defense.

TEAM NEEDS OVERVIEW (Obviously, there are hundreds of ways to approach this, but after doing this, I am having the following thoughts--priorities in bold):

• Edge (1-one elite player IF we keep Clowney and Wonnum)
• 2 DL (2-one elite NT/DT and a DE.  2 players to go with Brown and A. Robinson in rotation). 
• CB (1- sign Mike Jackson and find a CB to play nickel--could be on the roster)
• LB  (1- one dawg in the middle to go with Jewell and Wallace)
• 2 S (2-we could need 2 starting safeties--all of our safeties underperformed and are UFA)
• QB (1 backup QB)
• RB (1 backup RB--is Sanders the answer?  Draft is ridiculously deep at RB--take one day 3?-wait for Undrafted free agent?)
• TE (1 starter)
• WR (we could use a #1 WR, but this does not seem to be the year for it.  Get solid WRs who can catch).
• OL (1 backup center-answer could be on roster)

DRAFT PRIORITIES:  (WR, Edge, DT) Day 3 options:  (QB, TE, RB, S)

FREE AGENT PRIORITIES: (CB, S, DE, ILB)

This is not to suggest it is all we do--just the must do list

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CRA]

I hope they don’t redo Miles Sanders deal.  I’d rather add youth and a more complimentary back to Hubbard.   

[Navy_football]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

I hope they don’t redo Miles Sanders deal.  I’d rather add youth and a more complimentary back to Hubbard.   

I agree. I don't think Miles is bad, just not really good. Either way, he's injured way too much to count on as a backup. Backup RBs play every Sunday and need to be able to carry a series or two a game. 

[LinvilleGorge]

I've always wanted the Panthers to have an elite sideline to sideline ball hawking over the top true FS. Mike Minter is the best safety we ever had and honestly he was in the "good" category and he was a pure old school SS. Deon Grant is probably the only quality true FS we've ever had and we didn't even sign him to a second contract. It's a position we've always undervalued. I loved watching guys like Earl Thomas and Ed Reed and Brian Dawkins, Darren Sharper was a step below those guys but was another one I really enjoyed watching play.

Having guys like that playing over the top allows your CBs to be so much more aggressive. Panthers fans have always lamented watching our CBs play 10 yards off the line on 3rd and short but this is a big part of the reason why.

[Basbear]

There is some meat and I dare say OL and CB are on good terms. Sure center, but the other spots and depth......what not to like. I say toss Zavala name out there in trade pools, lewis and hunt are young studs not going anywhere. I feel Zavala would challenge for a staring role on some teams, just like BY what a bounce back. He's going to be wasted here on the bench. 

If they resign Michael Jackson(100% should within cap reasons), the CB spot should be 2025 ready.

 

They need to figure out ST too. 

 

Good post and Im be back... 

Edited yesterday at 12:13 AM by Basbear

[TheSpecialJuan]

49 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

ONE PERSPECTIVE, Based on needs, some flashes I noticed down the stretch.  Agree, disagree, add something?  Remember, the draft is basically 3 picks and free agency is based on our cap.  Be realistic.

CB

Mike Jackson (he he):  He was rated at 68 on PFF and no CB played more snaps (1200).  With Horn, Jackson is a solid #2.

Akayleb Evans (25) and Shemar Bartholomew (24): longshots to make the roster in 2025, I was impressed with both at times.  SB's coverage of Evans in man was excellent, but since Evans caught the ball, he was probably downgraded.  Small sample size for both, but depth at CB is important.  I really like them, especially SB.  Both upgrades over Dane Jackson. FWIW, Caleb Farley scored a 56.1 in about 170 snaps and did not do much to earn a roster spot in 2025 at CB--but could he play a different position?  see (S).

NOTE:  If the Panthers can get Mike Jackson back, they are pretty good at starting CB but very thin at the position.  Wade-Smith is next up, and we need better. 

DE/DT

Sam Roberts:  Very small sample size, but he was effective.  At 26 he is a longshot and may be a PS player at best, maybe there is something there?

A'Shawn Robinson:  He is under contract and will be 30, but he gets pressure on the QB, with 24 pressures this season.  Not a great DT/DE in terms of stuffing the run, but he would be a valuable rotational piece.  I am including this about Robinson because I would let Ray, Tuttle, and D. Williams go.  Tuttle sucked and his cap hit is $9m.  Post June cut saves us $6.5m. 

NOTE: We get Brown back, but we need 2 more Defensive Hog Mollies. Brown, a stud DT/NT, A Robinson and another DE would be solid.

OLB

Jadaveon Clowney and DJ Wonnum:  They are under contract, but will add about $10m to the cap to keep them.  Worth it?  I say "yes" but we need to address the position and rookie OLBs tend to struggle.  May be a necessary expense.  Wonnum is a potential extension, but he is average at best---good at QB pressures and holds a decent edge.

Amare Barno was injured and could be solid depth; not sure DJ Johnson is worth the roster spot. 

NOTE:  I think the Panthers will add up to 2 Edge players to the roster and carry Barno, Clowney, and Wonnum.

ILB

Josey Jewell had 68 tackles and a 56 PFF score.  Trevin Wallace had a 56 PFF score and 43 tackles--not good. Bad DTs?  Probably.  However, Jewell will be 31, but his roster spot is secure.  Our Safeties and CBs made most of the tackles. Where have you gone, Sam Morgeasonluke?  I don't see Shaq coming back, at 31.

Jacoby Windmon is 23 and showed some flashes that he could be sound depth.  He made 11 tackles in 128 snaps--that is about 9% of each play.  Chandler Wooten was terrible. 

Note:  People are not really talking about ILB, but it is a big need.  Look for 2 additions to the roster, one from the draft (deep).

S

Jordan Fuller UFA.  was subpar for a veteran S.  Will be 28.

Lonnie Johnson?  UFA and gone as well.  Will be 30.

Xavier Woods ?  UFA.  PFF score 57.  3 picks.  Not sure he is going to be offered a contract--overpaid in 2024.  Will be 30.

Nick Scott?  UFA.  PFF score 53.  Will be 30.

Sam Franklin?  UFA.  Will be 29. 

NOTE:  I see no player I would re-sign.  This is why I wanted to see the Panthers give Caleb Farley a look at S.  NO S on the PS or IR.  The cupboards are empty.  Fuller may have to be re-signed, or Woods.  Do not want either.

OVERALL DEFENSIVE ASSESSMENT:  I am shocked to realize how much turnover we are about to see--We have no safeties, few ILBs, CBs, and DL.  We have Morgan (defensive player) who loves "Dawgs," looking into this.

QB

Bryce Young.  Slated to be the starter.   Not sure Dalton is coming back.

RB

Miles Sanders.  Can be post June 1 cut and save the team $6m.  Has no market value.  Would probably take a team-friendly deal, or cut him.  Lotta good young RBs in the draft, but if you can get a veteran behind Chuba for $2m (negotiated down from $8m), you consider it.  However, with no guaranteed salary, I see him done in Carolina.

NOTE:  You have to pick up a RB or two, and since we have so many defensive needs, I am not sure we do anything before day 3 if at all--renegotiating with Sanders might be the smart play--not sure.

TE

Tommy Tremble is an UFA.  He had 200+ yards receiving this season and knows the system.  Let him shop himself, but I would offer the vet minimum.

NOTE: This offense needs a stud TE as much as it needs a stud WR.  Sanders should be the #2, but is TE enough of a need to address it now? 

WR

Xavier Legette scored 4 TDs on about 500 yards (PFF score 59.3)  He needs to double those numbers in 2025, and I expect it--raw players can have bigger jumps from year 1 to year 2.  That also applies to Jalen Coker who had a 72.8 PFF grade and 478 yards and 2 TDs.  I expect both to double up those numbers.  Adam Theilen (615 yards, 5 TDs, 76.4 PFF grade) would round out the core.

David Moore is an UFA, but he could be brought back on the cheap, in my view.  He will be 30.

NOTE: Of course, the Panthers need to add a WR, but if the rookies improve, the WR corps should be respectable.  It is my view that a good possession WR that runs good routes and has good hands would be enough--just not ideal.  An elite TE, in my view, would impact the offense more.

OL

Cade Mays is a decent starting center right now, but after he works as a starter through camp at one position, you will see improvement.  He was top 10 in pass protection among 64 centers.  With Bryce, that is the most important aspect of his game.  I am elated by the way he developed in a partial season.  Love him.

The rest of the OL is under contract--big ones, but contracts.

Brady Christensen UFA needs to be re-signed.  In my view, he should be our swing OT and nothing else.  Why?  Zavala has played much better all year, culminating in a starting performance vs. the Falcons that was great. 

Chandler Zavala: So how good was Chandler Zavala in spot duty this season?  You weren't paying attention because you were telling everyone that "he sucks".  PFF:  Pass blocking--73.9, run blocking 71.9.  We have depth at G, folks.

NOTE:  We need one depth position, in my opinion--C.  In my view, we have a few guys on the roster who can compete for the backup C position, if BC is not your guy.  Jarrett Kingston and Andrew Raym. 

OFFENSIVE OVERVIEW:  We must add a WR or two, a TE, a RB, and a backup QB.  In relation to the draft and salary cap, most of these needs are not primary needs like we see on defense.

TEAM NEEDS OVERVIEW (Obviously, there are hundreds of ways to approach this, but after doing this, I am having the following thoughts--priorities in bold):

• Edge (1-one elite player IF we keep Clowney and Wonnum)
• 2 DL (2-one elite NT/DT and a DE.  2 players to go with Brown and A. Robinson in rotation). 
• CB (1- sign Mike Jackson and find a CB to play nickel--could be on the roster)
• LB  (1- one dawg in the middle to go with Jewell and Wallace)
• 2 S (2-we could need 2 starting safeties--all of our safeties underperformed and are UFA)
• QB (1 backup QB)
• RB (1 backup RB--is Sanders the answer?  Draft is ridiculously deep at RB--take one day 3?-wait for Undrafted free agent?)
• TE (1 starter)
• WR (we could use a #1 WR, but this does not seem to be the year for it.  Get solid WRs who can catch).
• OL (1 backup center-answer could be on roster)

DRAFT PRIORITIES:  (WR, Edge, DT) Day 3 options:  (QB, TE, RB, S)

FREE AGENT PRIORITIES: (CB, S, DE, ILB)

This is not to suggest it is all we do--just the must do list

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

great write-up

[Jon Snow]

38 minutes ago, CRA said:

I hope they don’t redo Miles Sanders deal.  I’d rather add youth and a more complimentary back to Hubbard.   

I would rather waste a late round pick on one before paying him another dime. There's better in the draft and much cheaper. 

[Jon Snow]

21 minutes ago, Basbear said:

There is some meat and I dare say OL and CB are on good terms. Sure center, but the other spots and depth......what not to like. I say toss Zavala name out there in trade pools, lewis and hunt are young studs not going anywhere. I feel Zavala would challenge for a staring role on some teams, just like BY what a bounce back. He's going to be wasted here on the bench. 

If they resign Michael Jackson(100% should within cap reasons), the CB spot should be 2025 ready.

 

They need to figure out ST too. 

 

Good post and Im be back... 

Dude, if you have great OL depth you do not trade it away. It's hard enough to build as it is. Keep your strengths stronger and work on the rest. 

[CarolinaRideorDie]

I think Bryce needs an alpha at WR or TE. If Garret Wilson is really upset and wants to leave the Jets, you gotta at least inquire. With the emergence of Bowers, Vegas may be willing to part with Mayer. He was a highly touted TE coming out in the draft. Lots of older superstar diva WR to consider in Davante Adams and Tyreek Hill but they would probably prefer Super Bowl contenders. 

Off season for the defense will be really interesting. I'm expecting at 8 or more new defensive players to be signed this off season. 

[MHS831]

Keeping Sanders on a $2m salary gives you a vet in the backfield, but I am not sold on bringing him back.  His blocking, ability to read blitzes etc.  should be advanced vs a rookie.  Furthermore, (going from memory) it would cost us $1.6m or so in dead cap to cut him.  If you reworked his deal for about $2m, you are basically getting him for $400K....It is a cap move more than an ideal situation--but I am not sure he is worth it even on those terms.  Bad signing.

[toldozer]

Sam Franklin is great on special teams needs to be back 

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, toldozer said:

Sam Franklin is great on special teams needs to be back 

I had the same thought, but if you have no starting safeties, do you re-sign the one who is not a starter to play STs?  Not sure what his second contract would look like, but if he can be had cheap, I agree.

 

[toldozer]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

I had the same thought, but if you have no starting safeties, do you re-sign the one who is not a starter to play STs?  Not sure what his second contract would look like, but if he can be had cheap, I agree.

 

He's a league min guy

[MHS831]

4 minutes ago, toldozer said:

He's a league min guy

Gotcha--my point was this:  We have little confidence in Franklin playing S--when I have seen him playing, it was ugly.  You only have so many roster spots, so do you give a contract to a guy for special teams purposes when you could have a lesser special teamer with backup S abilities?  Until the cards are on the table, we won't know, but it is interesting to discuss it.  I have the same opinions about KR and PR--they must be able to produce on the "next man up" ladder if called upon.  I am not sure how they feel about Franklin, so this could be a mute point.

Edited yesterday at 04:18 AM by MHS831