If Graham is gone, fo you take Carter?

[Bear Hands]

Abdul Carter 

(a mini-look by me, admittedly lukewarm on him)

Positives: Length, burst, bend, overall-sky high potential (all-pro), versatility - plus talent as both the edge and offball LB

Negatives: Inconsistent run-defense, only one year at the edge, poor hand technique, gets off-balance easily and is a tackle misser, lack of a pass rush moveset/overeliant on his quickness, twice in trouble with the law (the notable one was pulling the tow truck driver out of his truck and beating him up - was towing his ride)

Overall: Major upside, but he doesn't scratch the top-10 in most drafts.   He's not ready to be a 3-down guy.  Too much development needed in both the run defense and in his pass rush arsenal.  Won't complain at all bc of his potential, but this type, much like Chop last year, is not an instant potsticker.  Guys like D Barnett, Bark, & Chaisson make me nervous/like I've seen this dance before.  Parsons was so much further along as a run defender, you can't compare on that end IMO.       

[ncfan]

13 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

I prefer Scourton to Carter. He’s much closer to the Bradley Chubb type of player that Evero wants as an EDGE. Only thing with Scourton is Jack Sawyer is just as good and you can get him in the second.

Carter is drawing comparisons to Brian Burns who we ran off.

There is not one person that comp’d him to Burns.

 

Only one getting the Burns comp is Pierce jr.

[Panther53521]

Most 3-4 defenses outside LB work best when you have a speed guy on one side and a power guy on the other.

[MillionDollarCam]

1 minute ago, ncfan said:

There is not one person that comp’d him to Burns.

 

Only one getting the Burns comp is Pierce jr.

Not true, Walter Football is comparing Pearce to Burns but there are others comparing Carter to Burns. EDGE’s that aren’t great against the run and lack strength are going to continually be compared to Burns. At this point in Carter’s career he’s a pass rushing specialist and he really needs to bulk up and be developed properly. He has good bend but almost zero pass rushing moves and lacks the strength of someone like Micah Parsons.

See below (and yes, I know they through Parsons in there):

https://www.footballscout365.com/nfldraftplayerprofile/abdul-carter

[ncfan]

4 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

Not true, Walter Football is comparing Pearce to Burns but there are others comparing Carter to Burns. EDGE’s that aren’t great against the run and lack strength are going to continually be compared to Burns. At this point in Carter’s career he’s a pass rushing specialist and he really needs to bulk up and be developed properly. He has good bend but almost zero pass rushing moves and lacks the strength of someone like Micah Parsons.

See below (and yes, I know they through Parsons in there):

https://www.footballscout365.com/nfldraftplayerprofile/abdul-carter

I quit following WalterFootball years ago so haven’t checked theirs. But literally no one else is comparing them to each other.  Not built or play the same.

To say he is just a pass rusher specialist and say he’s not as strong as Parsons just tells me you have never watched 1 min of the film of the 2.

Carter never was even a “Pass rusher” until this year.  Like Parsons.  He started as a MLB who they transitioned them more outside/pass rusher their final year.

Parsons was never the strong tossing OL around at Penn State either.  That came about year 2 in the NFL when he continued to add bulk when he moved to the new role.

Speaking of the 2,  Carter has More Sacks and More Tackles For Loss  at edge than Parsons did when they moved him his last year like Carter.

[Jon Snow]

53 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Including Jeanty?

He won't be ranked as bpa at 8.

[Jon Snow]

35 minutes ago, KaijuGato said:

Both are projected 2nd round Grant maybe bottom of the 1st.  Grant was on that Michigan Dline with Graham.

Kenneth Grant- 6’3” 339 lbs

Deone Walker- 6’6” 344 lbs

Another interesting name for potential Day 2 pick Landon Jackson Arkansas, DL/Edge 6’ 7” 280 lbs. 

We will have options if we miss out on Graham. 

Not at the end of the 2nd where our pick is currently.  Remember our 2nd round pick is the one we acquired from the Rams.

[KaijuGato]

Just now, Jon Snow said:

Not at the end of the 2nd where our pick is currently.  Remember our 2nd round pick is the one we acquired from the Rams.

I think Morgan showed us last year he’s not afraid to move around in the draft. Now what this could like, no idea. Move up in the 2nd, trade down in the 1st and get another 2nd rounder…not sure, but it’s not out of the realm of speculation. 

[Jon Snow]

8 minutes ago, KaijuGato said:

I think Morgan showed us last year he’s not afraid to move around in the draft. Now what this could like, no idea. Move up in the 2nd, trade down in the 1st and get another 2nd rounder…not sure, but it’s not out of the realm of speculation. 

Yeah that's why I said currently.  That wildcard makes it hard to target who might be available around all our picks. We need talent and this draft is short on day 1 starters in reality. There's a lot of them that will be forced into starting situations and it will be no different here. I'm not encouraged by what I've seen so far. I've seen more big time play made by small school players than these top teams have shown.

Edited Monday at 09:47 PM by Jon Snow

[scratched]

I like the idea of targeting DTs T.J. Sanders or Corleon late in the 2nd or 3rd for our DT pick. With 8th pick, I like Starks, Emmanwori, or Will Johnson. Unless someone like Hunter falls that far, which isn't happening. I don't see and Edge guy I like that high. And I think DT is deep enough not to draft that position at 8. Hopefully we find a partner to trade down with and collect a couple more picks. McMillan would be quite tempting with his size at 8 as well. I'm also targeting a guy like Carters teammate, Dennis-Sutton in the 3rd or 4th. The guy is 6-5 and 270 playing the edge. 

[MillionDollarCam]

Just now, ncfan said:

I quit following WalterFootball years ago so haven’t checked theirs. But literally no one else is comparing them to each other.  Not built or play the same.

To say he is just a pass rusher specialist and say he’s not as strong as Parsons just tells me you have never watched 1 min of the film of the 2.

Carter never was even a “Pass rusher” until this year.  Like Parsons.  He started as a MLB who they transitioned them more outside/pass rusher their final year.

Parsons was never the strong tossing OL around at Penn State either.  That came about year 2 in the NFL when he continued to add bulk when he moved to the new role.

Speaking of the 2,  Carter has More Sacks and More Tackles For Loss  at edge than Parsons did when they moved him his last year like Carter.

I’m well aware of all that and actually prefer Carter as an ILB. As an EDGE his pass rushing skills rely on his speed.

He’s a freak athlete like Parsons for sure and is super dangerous when attacking the outside shoulder of the tackle because his bend is elite but beyond that what does he provide you with? As an EDGE, his run defense is average and he constantly looks like he has no pass rush plan and is just content with using his speed to get sacks. His pass rushing technique and his moves are super raw, hell, he rarely even uses his hands when rushing the passer.

There’s a lot of risk in asking a speed rusher to bulk up. For starters he could lose some of that speed and explosiveness.

There’s just too many question marks with Carter to take him when someone like Starks might be on the board.

[Super Grateful]

Give me one of the Servite HS alumns, Graham or McMillan. 

[45catfan]

49 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

He won't be ranked as bpa at 8.

If he kills it in the offseason workouts he will be.  Remember, this dude came up just a few yards short of breaking Berry Sanders record.

 

Edited Monday at 10:22 PM by 45catfan

[flagfootballcoach28]

No way Carter or Graham falls to us so we might as well stop talking about them. Beating the Falcons destroyed that dream. We’ll end up with a player like Nic Scourton.  Hopefully Wll Johnson will be there. I don’t see Dan Morgan taking a WR in b2b 1st rounds even though I’d love T-Mac