We have a franchise QB

[KSpan]

21 minutes ago, jb2288 said:

It’s year 3. Bryce proved everything he needed this year. There is zero point in using draft capital or overpaying unnecessary FA funds on a starter level backup QB. Bryce doesn’t need competition anymore in year 3 after proving himself. We will have our cheap vet backup.

Where did I say to spend a draft pick or a bunch of money? Hint: I didn't. The threat of Dalton was clearly enough this year as. A 'cheap vet backup'. Stop putting words in my mouth, you look foolish doing so.

That aside, Bryce absolutely did not prove anything long term - that can not happen until next year. No player can do so with a samp size this small and with the abysmal performances put on film previously. It would be foolish for the team to not have a continuing development plan that does not include a viable alternative.

Edited yesterday at 02:14 AM by KSpan

[KSpan]

17 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Which part was a strawman argument - in your opinion? To bring in a backup that would compete with BY would take significant draft capital or salary cap that can be better appropriated to improve positions of weakness. If you're thinking a 5th round draft pick, then I'm all for it. But they wouldn't really be pushing BY for the start. 

No, it would not - Dalton was clearly enough. All i said was that they need to keep an air of competition. You are flat out making things up at this point.

[BIGH2001]

37 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Point being what exactly? The corollary here of course is that if he had been challenged sooner instead of anointed and not challenged, he would have performed better throughout his career. Which is almost what I'm suggesting the team continue to consider with Bryce...

Craziness, I know. I mean, who would think that a guy that clearly benefitted from competition might still benefit from some degree of it in the formative years of his career?

Mahomes wasn’t drafted for competition. He was taken to be the franchise QB. Smith was sent to Washington the following year.

[Navy_football]

5 minutes ago, KSpan said:

No, it would not - Dalton was clearly enough. All i said was that they need to keep an air of competition. You are flat out making things up at this point.

Roger that. Maybe I misunderstood the intent of your post. Would just kinda seem unneccessary to mention that they'd have a backup QB next season. They'll have backups on the roster at every single position, except maybe some specialists. I interpreted your original post as bringing in real competition for the starting QB position as motivation for BY to continue to improve. Agree they should bring in a guy that could win a few games in case of injury. But BY has EARNED the starting QB position. It's his to lose at this point. That's what happened after the benching. Starting QBs don't have to Re-earn their position every year. That's not productive for anyone. I think Bill Parcells said, if you have 2 QBs you don't have any. I agree with that. 

[KSpan]

Just now, BIGH2001 said:

Mahomes wasn’t drafted for competition. He was taken to be the franchise QB. Smith was sent to Washington the following year.

Obviously, yes - I live in KC and have watched the entire Reid era (and long before as well) firsthand. But he absolutely was Smith's competitive spark that year, and if Smith had not come out firing Mahomes would have been on the field. Reid and the FO kee what needed to be done.

[mav1234]

4 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Roger that. Maybe I misunderstood the intent of your post. Would just kinda seem unneccessary to mention that they'd have a backup QB next season. They'll have backups on the roster at every single position, except maybe some specialists. I interpreted your original post as bringing in real competition for the starting QB position as motivation for BY to continue to improve. Agree they should bring in a guy that could win a few games in case of injury. But BY has EARNED the starting QB position. It's his to lose at this point. That's what happened after the benching. Starting QBs don't have to Re-earn their position every year. That's not productive for anyone. I think Bill Parcells said, if you have 2 QBs you don't have any. I agree with that. 

A lot of us saying we "want competition in camp" don't mean we want to invest a lot of capital or don't think Bryce is our #1, we just want to go into camp with a new QB room that Canales picks, and have the guys all try to push each other to get better. It isn't even about something like saying Young "has to earn" his #1 position - He already has. I just want a new QB room and a coach that has those guys pushing each other.  With longer seasons I think it makes sense to have that, too.

[Navy_football]

2 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

A lot of us saying we "want competition in camp" don't mean we want to invest a lot of capital or don't think Bryce is our #1, we just want to go into camp with a new QB room that Canales picks, and have the guys all try to push each other to get better. It isn't even about something like saying Young "has to earn" his #1 position - He already has. I just want a new QB room and a coach that has those guys pushing each other.  With longer seasons I think it makes sense to have that, too.

Makes perfect sense. I just think that goes without saying. EVERY position needs to have that kind of competition. Every one. Right down to the place kicker. Heck, even the backups at some positions should have strong competition. Definitely don't think they should bring in a low end QB just to save Bryce's feelings or something. That would NOT be productive. But whoever that guy is should not impact their ability to bring in playmakers at the WR, DE, FS, ILB, DT positions. Those are infinitely more important needs.

[mav1234]

Just now, Navy_football said:

Makes perfect sense. I just think that goes without saying. EVERY position needs to have that kind of competition. Every one. Right down to the place kicker. Heck, even the backups at some positions should have strong competition. Definitely don't think they should bring in a low end QB just to save Bryce's feelings or something. That would NOT be productive. But whoever that guy is should not impact their ability to bring in playmakers at the WR, DE, FS, ILB, DT positions. Those are infinitely more important needs.

I agree with this, but I do not honestly believe that is what happened going into Year 1 with Reich.  That might just be... Reich, lol

I think Dalton is also kinda done. I'd like to see us upgrade our backup because, as we've seen all around the NFL, with a longer season starts ARE missing a game or two per year and so having that better backup could pay dividends there.  But we have too many holes for a luxury investment there of course.

[frankw]

At this point Andy Dalton has no future and serves no purpose here. Bryce is entering his third season he doesn't need any mentorship from Dalton. This QB room outside of Young needs a full reset and it should be Canales choosing who will be brought in.

[LegioX]

Something make me wonder what the hell was he thinking mentality when he came into the league. He is way better than what he was. Just scared shitless? Slow learner?

[Jon Snow]

31 minutes ago, LegioX said:

Something make me wonder what the hell was he thinking mentality when he came into the league. He is way better than what he was. Just scared shitless? Slow learner?

My theory is that it was just a combination of an iladvised coaching hires with no real idea how to develop Young. None of the coaches knew how to build an offense or how to evaluate talent. Young needed to sit and learn the pro qb game for a while and work on his mechanics. None of that happened.  It was doomed from the start.

[TD alt]

6 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

I wish there was a way to see what all these posters who are excited about this win (and the Cardinals win) were saying 3-4 years ago when we were winning those meaningless late season games.

I'll bet they were saying the same thing, "this is how you build a culture" and "it's going to carry over into next year" and "blah blah blah"

That to me is why I don't understand all the hate I get for taking this stance, it's not like we're some new franchise that has never gone through this before.  We've been doing it for YEARS, we win these meaningless late season games, a group of fans think it's the start of a turnaround of the franchise, but all it does is hurt our ability to draft better players and we rinse and repeat the next year.

I don't take joy in saying this stuff, but I just call it like I see it.  

Yes, Bryce played better the last 2 months, but there are still at least 20 QB's that I'd take over him in a heartbeat right now.  You're not going to ever contend in today's NFL with a QB who is outside the Top 20 in the league, it's just the way the game is played these days.

Getting excited about possible mediocrity just because we've been garbage for so long is now how you build a winning franchise, it's how you get stuck in NFL purgatory, and I'm sick of being stuck there.

For like the hundredth time, if you can't draft well (on day one and two in particular), just because you moved several draft spots, then you don't need to be in an NFL front office. Period!  The reason why the better part of the decade hasn't been a failure because we won "meaningless" games as you call them, it's because the people making the calls didn't draft the right people when they were on the clock, and they traded away too much draft capital. You can't show me one first round where there was no talent available worthy of a first round pick when we picked. I don't care if you're top five, 10 or 32.

[TheSpecialJuan]

That was fuging awesome 

[spydaman27]

9 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

I want to be playing in the playoffs and contending for SB's.  You don't do that by winning meaningless games in December every freaking season, which we tend to do.

How has that worked out for us since 2015?  It hasn't worked, it's why we've been stuck in NFL purgatory for basically the last decade.  

But sure, let's keep celebrating these late season wins, they keep me all warm and fuzzy inside during those 1-7 starts and ruin the season for us before the midway point of the schedule.

This argument happens every year, at what point do the people who celebrate these wins realize it's not working?  People point out the good players we did draft later in the draft, but they obviously aren't helping turn around the franchise, maybe we'd have gotten even better players than them if we were higher in the draft.

I'm sick of having a terrible team, I'm not going to celebrate wins that cost us significant draft capital when I think we're stuck with an awful QB.  If we had a Drake Maye, who has looked like he has a real future, then yea, I'd be more on board with celebrating a meaningless Week 18 win, because I'd feel we had a future.

Bryce aint it, sure I'd love him to become that guy, but I 100% do not see it happening, so things like today just piss me off as I feel like we keep setting ourselves back as a franchise.

In 2021 the Lions had all 3 of their wins between December and January. The next year they had 9 wins, and have trended up ever since. I’m not saying we are the Lions, they built there D up and learned to play defensive football no matter who is on the field. Bryce Young has proved over the back half of the year why he was the number 1 overall pick. 
 

Last year he was put into the worst position in the league. Sacked the most, brand new head coach and all offensive coaches fired mid way through the year. He has proven that he is clutch this year. Anyone doubting him just refuses to be wrong. Gas light yourself. The doubters are the ones still crying to bring Cam back.