Just a reminder...

[ProcessBlue2]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Physical vs mental. There's a chance the latter is fixable. The former isn't. There's a reason why old coach sayings like "you can't coach height" or "you can't coach speed" exist. It's because they're true. You might be able to coach someone up from a technique perspective and from a mental perspective but you can't fix a fundamental lack of talent. That's why the old saying "those who can't do coach" exists.

It's weird this needs explaining.

You're debating with people who have told me 2-3 times this weekend that if you "believe real hard" he will be good.

[NAS]

4 minutes ago, Tbe said:

How? Doubt is doubt. 

Darnold - he’s not mentally capable to play at this level.

Bryce - He’s not physical capable to play at this level.

The narrative was wrong about Darnold and is probably wrong about Bryce.

 

Facts! And funny that the main complaint doubters had about Bryce is he would get passes batted down, could not see the field, couldn’t take the hits. He’s proven them all as fallacies so the goal posts keep moving. Until recently it was about not being able to throw deep and that’s been proven wrong. They’re running out of things to say, so it’s just generic size / arm bull  

[jb2288]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

My fault, I went back and looked and it was another poster who made that wild argument.

You were simply arguing that the receiver should've done a better job trying to fight through the DBs to make the catch.

I just don't think you're following the logic. I think I've laid it out pretty clearly. All three sucked (suck) here. Darnold is a prototype physical talent but seemed to have incurable mental issues. Baker checked the stature and athleticism boxes and has a big time arm but just seemed too erratic. Bryce oftentimes simply doesn't look like he physically belongs on an NFL field both from a size standpoint and physical traits standpoint. These are very different situations.

 

No worries, lots of posts in there things get mixed up. Yes, I do expect WR's to attempt to use their hands and fight for a ball. There is very little chance he makes that catch there, but nothing good can happen from this "cradle the baby" motion XL likes to do. You stick your hands out and fight for the ball you can luck into a catch, draw PI, or prevent a DB making a play on it. I was ass but I did play WR in HS and this is coached constantly even at that level. I can't imagine our coaching staff is okay that he is doing this and not trying to get it corrected. 

Okay well I guess I respect your opinion but just respectfully disagree. In my head, occams razor concept that maybe instead of any of these 3 individual QBs being bad here, the Panthers are just an awful organization for a QB from 2021 to 2023 makes more sense. It looks like in 2024 we have started turning that around as a franchise. The other 2 guys now play on teams with a HoF #1 and VERY solid other receivers, true #1 TEs (yes I know Otton didn't play today), and very good RB rooms. I would say we have a very good RB on that list. 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, NAS said:

Facts! And funny that the main complaint doubters had about Bryce is he would get passes batted down, could not see the field, couldn’t take the hits. He’s proven them all as fallacies so the goal posts keep moving. Until recently it was about not being able to throw deep and that’s been proven wrong. They’re running out of things to say, so it’s just generic size / arm bull  

The way you act you'd think it was a Joe Burrow situation where he was putting up MVP type numbers but we were still loosing, meanwhile he and we are at or near the bottom of the league in practically every passing category. You are deluding yourself out of sheer hope.

I still hope Bryce proves me wrong but you spiking the football acting like it's already happened isn't even funny anymore it's just sad to watch at this point.

[jb2288]

6 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Physical vs mental. There's a chance the latter is fixable. The former isn't. There's a reason why old coach sayings like "you can't coach height" or "you can't coach speed" exist. It's because they're true. You might be able to coach someone up from a technique perspective and from a mental perspective but you can't fix a fundamental lack of talent. That's why the old saying "those who can't do coach" exists.

It's weird this needs explaining.

I'm not attacking you here, I'm honestly asking. Is there anything he could do that makes you okay with his physical traits? Because if you're saying it isn't fixable then that means you will never be happy with Bryce as he will not physically grow at age 23. I don't know maybe he works out a ton and gets a stronger arm, I don't know how that works at this level. 

My point being, what if this is not the right argument and there is no "fundamental lack of talent" that needs to be fixed? And instead what needed to be fixed was the Panthers QB culture that plagued both Baker and Sam who are flouring now in better cultures? 

Nothing Bryce has done this week makes me think he can't throw the deep ball, can't throw the far hash, can't shake off a sack and scramble for a first, can't throw a 20 yard out, can't lower his shoulder at the sticks and get a first. Last season? Sure, those questions are there. This season? I have seen him do all of this over the past 4 weeks. 

[NAS]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The way you act you'd think it was a Joe Burrow situation where he was putting up MVP type numbers but we were still loosing, meanwhile he and we are at or near the bottom of the league in practically every passing category. You are deluding yourself out of sheer hope.

I still hope Bryce proves me wrong but you spiking the football acting like it's already happened isn't even funny anymore it's just sad to watch at this point.

No sir but what I can do is evaluate the player’s individual performance in full context including the roster, situation, time and place. Bryce is playing good football and is improving almost every week. That’s the reason for optimism. If anything your post about Darnold and Mayfield is proof that even good or great QBs must have the right support structure and situation to reach their potential. That’s the irony in this whole thread is you think it is an argument against Bryce but it’s the opposite, it’s exactly why we must give him an opportunity to develop and build the roster and the culture along the way.  

[mrcompletely11]

3 minutes ago, NAS said:

No sir but what I can do is evaluate the player’s individual performance in full context including the roster, situation, time and place. Bryce is playing good football and is improving almost every week. That’s the reason for optimism. If anything your post about Darnold and Mayfield is proof that even good or great QBs must have the right support structure and situation to reach their potential. That’s the irony in this whole thread is you think it is an argument against Bryce but it’s the opposite, it’s exactly why we must give him an opportunity to develop and build the roster and the culture along the way.  

How many yards did he have in the 2nd half?

[Waldo]

The only culture they have built is to further cement the losing culture they already had. Bryce is perfect to keep that legacy going. It's actually a perfect marriage.

[LinvilleGorge]

7 minutes ago, NAS said:

No sir but what I can do is evaluate the player’s individual performance in full context including the roster, situation, time and place. Bryce is playing good football and is improving almost every week. That’s the reason for optimism. If anything your post about Darnold and Mayfield is proof that even good or great QBs must have the right support structure and situation to reach their potential. That’s the irony in this whole thread is you think it is an argument against Bryce but it’s the opposite, it’s exactly why we must give him an opportunity to develop and build the roster and the culture along the way.  

This is the narrative you're creating. The environment argument is valid. 100% for sure. But the point I'm making here is that Darnold and Mayfield didn't have raw talent issues. The issues with Bryce's talent level are all still there. He's doing a better job of doing what he can to compensate where he can but he's still a marginal NFL talent. You have to have a perfect environment to make that work. In other words, you need the system and the team to carry that guy. Like Purdy in SF. We're basically still sitting here hoping and praying that Bryce can be Brock Purdy. Bryce probably has better mobility but Purdy has a better arm. Still below NFL average but better than Bryce's.

[outlaw4]

1 hour ago, NAS said:

Exactly, remember how cooked Baker looked, I think he broke the record for number of passes batted down

Full disclosure but I was never big on Mayfield myself. He looked like a broken QB with nothing to play for. Could we had tried fixing him back then? Given what was going on with the dysfunction behind the scenes? Unlikely. Darnold did have moments but I never got the sense the organization (ie Tepper) was truly behind him. Still have that feeling Mayfield was basically handed the starting job over Darnold.

[ProcessBlue2]

5 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

How many yards did he have in the 2nd half?

49

[CRA]

12 minutes ago, NAS said:

Facts! And funny that the main complaint doubters had about Bryce is he would get passes batted down, could not see the field, couldn’t take the hits. He’s proven them all as fallacies so the goal posts keep moving. Until recently it was about not being able to throw deep and that’s been proven wrong. They’re running out of things to say, so it’s just generic size / arm bull  

We have the 31st ranked pass O and 31st ranked O….and that’s with the highest paid OL in the NFL….and the Dalton games technically drive the number up.  

 

[LinvilleGorge]

8 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

How many yards did he have in the 2nd half?

He had two good drives. He looked like trash the rest of the game.

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

He had two good drives. He looked like trash the rest of the game.

And yet folks on here and Twitter will say he cooked and balled out.  The bucs completely clamped him down in the second half with their scrubs in.