Hot Take: This team will never get over the hump, until we move on from Bryce.

[Icege]

I think that the "Cam didn't get any weapons!" narrative came from the 2015 season when KB was expected to build upon a 1,000-yard rookie season only to tear his ACL early on and eventually wash out of the league. Funchess was taken to develop into WR2, but imo he never amounted to much of anything compared to LaFell who went to NE and still had a moderately successful career. Follow that up with 2016 where they tried to essentially run it back without any real upgrades (and arguably one of the worst drafts in franchise history) and you've got a bunch of unstable people looking for a scapegoat to blame.

2017 they went and got him CMC + Samuel and then added DJ Moore in 2018. At that point, his shoulder was dust.

Edited Thursday at 09:48 PM by Icege

[Shotgun]

I would take Cam with Young's oline and weapons over Young with Cam's oline and weapons every day of the week.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

Cam had the #1 scoring offense with Tedd Ginn and Cotchery at WR and Byron Bell as his LT. Like what are we even talking about here.

[Jackson113.2]

THE same Huddlers supporting Bryce are probably the same one's talking smack about the Giants for paying Danny Dimes...

[Jon Snow]

Just now, Jackson113.2 said:

THE same Huddlers supporting Bryce are probably the same one's talking smack about the Giants for paying Danny Dimes...

No, it's the same people who said Sam Darnold would never amount to anything. 

[Jon Snow]

Just now, Jon Snow said:

No, the same folks slamming Young are the same people who said Sam Darnold would never amount to anything. 

 

[Icege]

7 hours ago, R0CKnR0LLA said:

Cam had the #1 scoring offense with Tedd Ginn and Cotchery at WR and Byron Bell as his LT. Like what are we even talking about here.

That season was Michael Oher, not Byron Bell.

16 hours ago, CRA said:

Cam's MVP season was as meh OL, Stewart and Olsen.  

  Oher/Norwell/Kalil/Turner/Remmers was a damn good line minus Remmers starting

 

Edited Friday at 01:57 PM by Icege

[Mistuh Jones]

we've had good backs, yes but lemme clarify - outside of Olsen- what pass catching weapons? I think you mean warm bodies. You're really calling Funchess a weapon? Philly Brown was a weapon? Twilight years Cotchery a weapon? 

[CRA]

16 hours ago, Icege said:

I think that the "Cam didn't get any weapons!" narrative came from the 2015 season when KB was expected to build upon a 1,000-yard rookie season only to tear his ACL early on and eventually wash out of the league. Funchess was taken to develop into WR2, but imo he never amounted to much of anything compared to LaFell who went to NE and still had a moderately successful career. Follow that up with 2016 where they tried to essentially run it back without any real upgrades (and arguably one of the worst drafts in franchise history) and you've got a bunch of unstable people looking for a scapegoat to blame.

2017 they went and got him CMC + Samuel and then added DJ Moore in 2018. At that point, his shoulder was dust.

I thought 2014-17 was pretty weak. 

But I never thought KB was ever actually good.  Just thought he was a large bodied JAG that was a product of being an over targeted WR his 1 year.  He was almost top 5 in the NFL in targets and managed to squeak 5 yards over 1k. 

Fun fact, if you gave XL the same target share....he would be KB.   

[Icege]

22 minutes ago, CRA said:

I thought 2014-17 was pretty weak. 

But I never thought KB was ever actually good.  Just thought he was a large bodied JAG that was a product of being an over targeted WR his 1 year.  He was almost top 5 in the NFL in targets and managed to squeak 5 yards over 1k. 

Fun fact, if you gave XL the same target share....he would be KB.   

I can understand an argument over the quality of the weapons when all was said and done but it's hard for me to agree with the idea that the team sat by and did nothing as we have seen expressed here a time or two.

2014 they spent a 1st round pick on a WR who had a successful rookie season. Nobody could have guessed that he'd tear his ACL in 2015 and then lose his mind in 2016. In 2015, they went and spent a 2nd rounder on a more athletic big bodied WR that just never really panned out. 2017 was when they picked up CMC + Curtis Samuel.

2016 is really the only season where there's a legitimate argument that nothing was done for Cam. The team went and had a draft where the only hit was Bradberry and then lost Oher to start the season. Between that and KB losing his mind, it was all downhill from there.

Edited Friday at 02:38 PM by Icege

[CRA]

9 minutes ago, Icege said:

I can understand an argument over the quality of the weapons when all was said and done but it's hard for me to agree with the idea that the team sat by and did nothing as we have seen expressed here a time or two.

2014 they spent a 1st round pick on a WR who had a successful rookie season. Nobody could have guessed that he'd tear his ACL in 2015 and then lose his mind in 2016. In 2015, they went and spent a 2nd rounder on a more athletic big bodied WR that just never really panned out. 2017 was when they picked up CMC + Curtis Samuel.

2016 is really the only season where there's a legitimate argument that nothing was done for Cam. The team went and had a draft where the only hit was Bradberry and then lost Oher to start the season. Between that and KB losing his mind, it was all downhill from there.

I don't think they did nothing and didn't try. 

I think KB was trying.  I just don't think he was good.  By the time they actually started pairing up Cam with some good talent his body was shot and the window closed.  CMC, Samuel, Moore, etc.  That's trying and it working. But Cam was done. 

But I always thought the best think you could do for Cam Newton was give him a good D first and foremost.  They largely did it.  Cam was basically the PG mindset come to life.  Only he wasn't a point guard.  He was a one man playmaker and they took advantage of that, that he could make everyone around him better. 

[CRA]

The BIGGEST fail IMO was idiot Scott Fitterer's vision that Bryce Young was Cam Newton.  Which is the reality of it.  He sold it as a point guard but it's the same logic.  That Bryce Young would be able to mask inefficiencies and make everyone on O better.  In reality it's the polar opposite.  Bryce is more a Brock Purdy.  You give him weapons to distribute the ball to and then those weapons are the O.  But it's not Brock Purdy making them weapons.  They just are weapons.  And Brock gets them the ball.  It works off of the efficiency of Brock to just do a job. 

I think Bryce Young will be whatever his weapons are.  We have below average weapons.  We have a below average O.  That's not true with all QBs.  Some QBs can and do raise the bar by being the QB. 

[frankw]

38 minutes ago, CRA said:

The BIGGEST fail IMO was idiot Scott Fitterer's vision that Bryce Young was Cam Newton.  Which is the reality of it.  He sold it as a point guard but it's the same logic.  That Bryce Young would be able to mask inefficiencies and make everyone on O better.  In reality it's the polar opposite.  Bryce is more a Brock Purdy.  You give him weapons to distribute the ball to and then those weapons are the O.  But it's not Brock Purdy making them weapons.  They just are weapons.  And Brock gets them the ball.  It works off of the efficiency of Brock to just do a job. 

I think Bryce Young will be whatever his weapons are.  We have below average weapons.  We have a below average O.  That's not true with all QBs.  Some QBs can and do raise the bar by being the QB. 

[Navy_football]

51 minutes ago, CRA said:

The BIGGEST fail IMO was idiot Scott Fitterer's vision that Bryce Young was Cam Newton.  Which is the reality of it.  He sold it as a point guard but it's the same logic.  That Bryce Young would be able to mask inefficiencies and make everyone on O better.  In reality it's the polar opposite.  Bryce is more a Brock Purdy.  You give him weapons to distribute the ball to and then those weapons are the O.  But it's not Brock Purdy making them weapons.  They just are weapons.  And Brock gets them the ball.  It works off of the efficiency of Brock to just do a job. 

I think Bryce Young will be whatever his weapons are.  We have below average weapons.  We have a below average O.  That's not true with all QBs.  Some QBs can and do raise the bar by being the QB. 

That sounds good in theory, but I don't believe a QB makes a WR better than he is. A good one can help him reach his potential but not necessarily surpass it. If he ain't a playmaker, a QB ain't gonna make him one. However, a good WR can help QBs look better than they really are though. 

Bryce is not Brock Purdy. Bryce Young is actually most dangerous when the play breaks down. 

As for Cam in 2015 - his 5th year in the NFL. No QB has ever done more with less. That's not a fair comparison for Bryce Young. He isn't built that way. Cam could lead the team in rushing yards and TDs, rushing attempts, and passing. Heck if he ran a couple of routes a game, he probably would have led the team in receiving too. All he ever needed was average protection and a couple of speed guys to stretch the defense. How friggin hard was that? Hurney and Rivera suck A$$ for what they did to him - truly a generational talent that flamed out in his prime ala Bo Jackson.