Bryce Young PFF - Week 16

[PappyMay]

51 minutes ago, NAS said:

Once you can forget what we gave up for him and just look at him for what he is you start to appreciate what he can be and that he gives the team a chance to win. 

Was he worth the trade? No.   

Can he still help the team win and be the franchise QB?  I think Yes.

He's shown he has the ability in moments to be more than just a "game manager".  He made some big time plays yesterday and over the last few week.  If he can do that consistently for 4 quarters, he becomes a true difference maker.  

this is exactly how i feel about it, he'll never live up to what we gave up for him, but I really think he can be a good game manager. Now is that someone you hit with the 5th year option or extend? That I'm not sure about , but I am thinking he's the guy for 2 more years as we finish out the rebuild. 

[mav1234]

9 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Ah yes, the classic and timeless 'Big Time Throws' HOF metric. Gold star for Bryce and the other QBs that make Big Time Throws.

That eyeroll aside, my position has always been that Bryce's ceiling is Bridgewater/Smith levels of effectiveness, which is not good enough to have a consistent shot at winning Super Bowls in today's NFL. My issue and concern with Bryce remains as it has always been - a lack of downfield dynamics. My position has also been that this is what really hampered the Saints with Brees at QB for the last nearly decade, the inability to truly attack downfield vs the top competition when the opportunities presented themselves.

That is likely complicated somewhat by the receivers on the roster and time will continue to sort that out if the roster is effectively managed. After watching the second half yesterday there were some very good throws, chiefly the throw over the middle while taking the shot that absolutely should have been roughing and then the superbly-placed TD to Moore, but still only 10 points produced and an inability to really close it out. That complete whiff on the third down pass was an untimely mistake but the kind that happens to all QBs and I don't think that's really outside of Bryce's current range of possibilities on any given throw anyway. I chuckled at the irony given all of the 'clutch' talk recently, but that's not really here or there when assessing the throw itself.

Yes, 30 points should be enough to win an NFL game, but the best teams have to be able to put up points and sustain drives when needed even if carrying an unreasonable part of the load. Getting 'close' with teams like the Chiefs and Eagles is to me more a signal of the limitations I mentioned earlier (Saints-esque inability to overcome the best competition) rather than an overly positive sign, and only time will tell if he and the team can move past that. Hopefully these final games show some increased dynamics and a continued growth toward true downfield effectiveness.

So I generally agree with you but I would say he basically did put is in position to beat the Eagles... That drop wasn't on him.

[CRA]

22 minutes ago, BullCityP said:

The reality is Bryce outplayed a Probowl QB vs a better defense with inferior weapons. IDK what else you can ask for from your #1 overall pick that you gave up the farm for 

I mean, the reality is Hubbard stayed on the field and Connor went down in the 3rd.  That's why the Panthers won. 

The whole this QB outplayed that QB simply because one team won just isn't always the statement some make it to be.  So many factors out there for each.   College football playoff this weekend, the by far best QB performance of the weekend was a losing QB.   He wasn't outplayed by the other QB.  The other team was simply better than his team. 

 

[BIGH2001]

12 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Ah yes, the classic and timeless 'Big Time Throws' HOF metric. Gold star for Bryce and the other QBs that make Big Time Throws.

That eyeroll aside, my position has always been that Bryce's ceiling is Bridgewater/Smith levels of effectiveness, which is not good enough to have a consistent shot at winning Super Bowls in today's NFL. My issue and concern with Bryce remains as it has always been - a lack of downfield dynamics. My position has also been that this is what really hampered the Saints with Brees at QB for the last nearly decade, the inability to truly attack downfield vs the top competition when the opportunities presented themselves.

That is likely complicated somewhat by the receivers on the roster and time will continue to sort that out if the roster is effectively managed. After watching the second half yesterday there were some very good throws, chiefly the throw over the middle while taking the shot that absolutely should have been roughing and then the superbly-placed TD to Moore, but still only 10 points produced and an inability to really close it out. That complete whiff on the third down pass was an untimely mistake but the kind that happens to all QBs and I don't think that's really outside of Bryce's current range of possibilities on any given throw anyway. I chuckled at the irony given all of the 'clutch' talk recently, but that's not really here or there when assessing the throw itself.

Yes, 30 points should be enough to win an NFL game, but the best teams have to be able to put up points and sustain drives when needed even if carrying an unreasonable part of the load. Getting 'close' with teams like the Chiefs and Eagles is to me more a signal of the limitations I mentioned earlier (Saints-esque inability to overcome the best competition) rather than an overly positive sign, and only time will tell if he and the team can move past that. Hopefully these final games show some increased dynamics and a continued growth toward true downfield effectiveness.

He led a game tying drive vs the Chiefs. The defense failed to get a stop. 

[CRA]

7 minutes ago, BIGH2001 said:

Maybe Bryce is executing the Canales offense? This isn’t Madden where you just throw bombs and rip the ball 30 yards downfield on every play. Executing a game plan, protecting the ball, and making big plays when there is an opportunity is how you win in the NFL. 

I mean, the vintage Sean Payton offense is what it is.  That's why I talk about the bomb throws.  It's part of it.  Which is why every week Nix is launching it 30+ yards downfield.  The threat and consistency of that is part of what makes that thing tick.  Small ball is hard when you don't have that.  An old Brees was able to pull it off at the end simply because he was GOAT.  Young QBs can't just play small ball.  If they do, it means defenses cheat on routes/coverage...which we have seen a lot with Bryce. 

I don't know what the Canales O is.  Maybe there isn't some set O.  I know what he did in Tampa and what we do here this year....aren't the same. 

[mav1234]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean, the reality is Hubbard stayed on the field and Connor went down in the 3rd.  That's why the Panthers won. 

The whole this QB outplayed that QB simply because won team just isn't always the statement some make it to be.  So many factors out there for each.   College football playoff this weekend, the by far best QB performance of the weekend was a losing QB.   He wasn't outplayed by the other QB.  The other team was simply better than his team. 

 

Once Conner went down our D had a chance. We also had changed our scheme clearly to go after the run more, so maybe we woulda controlled him... But I doubt it, heh.

We still had a couple of great drives in the 2nd and while one was all Chuba the other was all Bryce, so that felt good to watch.

Still like you said, didn't feel like we were asking him to do too much.

[Icege]

1 hour ago, NAS said:

Once you can forget what we gave up for him and just look at him for what he is you start to appreciate what he can be and that he gives the team a chance to win. 

Was he worth the trade? No.   

Can he still help the team win and be the franchise QB?  I think Yes.

He's shown he has the ability in moments to be more than just a "game manager".  He made some big time plays yesterday and over the last few week.  If he can do that consistently for 4 quarters, he becomes a true difference maker.  

It is remarkable to me that the same people that were pounding the table to trade up for a QB no matter the cost because a franchise QB is "worth any price" are now complaining that he'll never be worth what the team traded away.

[mav1234]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

I mean, the vintage Sean Payton offense is what it is.  That's why I talk about the bomb throws.  It's part of it.  Which is why every week Nix is launching it 30+ yards downfield.  The threat and consistency of that is part of what makes that thing tick.  Small ball is hard when you don't have that.  An old Brees was able to pull it off at the end simply because he was GOAT.  Young QBs can't just play small ball.  If they do, it means defenses cheat on routes/coverage...which we have seen a lot with Bryce. 

I don't know what the Canales O is.  Maybe there isn't some set O.  I know what he did in Tampa and what we do here this year....aren't the same. 

Canales is absolutely operating within the limitations of his players, whether Bryce or receivers. It did seem that with Dalton the game plan had more verticality.

[Icege]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

I mean, that is the definition of a safe gameplan coupled w/ Hubbard.  It's all check downs or throws to the outside and away from coverage.  

That very much looks to be a, "Avoid Budda Baker at all costs" game plan.

Looks like it worked out too.

Edited 4 hours ago by Icege

[mav1234]

Just now, Icege said:

It is remarkable to me that the same people that were pounding the table to trade up for a QB no matter the cost because a franchise QB is "worth any price" are now complaining that he'll never be worth what the team traded away.

I'm not sure why people care so much about what we traded for him. Past is the past. Only question to me is if he can be that QB that gets us back into the playoffs and further. I'm not sure he is, but he's played well enough he'll keep getting a chance to prove that.

[Manna]

We'll see how Bryce continues to grow. Give him props and criticism when his play deserves it. Build the rest of the team and if he ends up being the piece holding the team back then, that's when you can find your replacement. For now, he's shown that he can learn and grow. 

[BIGH2001]

6 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean, the vintage Sean Payton offense is what it is.  That's why I talk about the bomb throws.  It's part of it.  Which is why every week Nix is launching it 30+ yards downfield.  The threat and consistency of that is part of what makes that thing tick.  Small ball is hard when you don't have that.  An old Brees was able to pull it off at the end simply because he was GOAT.  Young QBs can't just play small ball.  If they do, it means defenses cheat on routes/coverage...which we have seen a lot with Bryce. 

I don't know what the Canales O is.  Maybe there isn't some set O.  I know what he did in Tampa and what we do here this year....aren't the same. 

Yes we are near the bottom of the league in average yards per completion with 9.8. The Broncos are at 9.9. Guess who is also at 9.9? The Chiefs. 

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, Icege said:

It is remarkable to me that the same people that were pounding the table to trade up for a QB no matter the cost because a franchise QB is "worth any price" are now complaining that he'll never be worth what the team traded away.

well, I supported the Panthers taking a swing at QB.  I still think that was the right call.   But just because you hit a foul ball and didn't get what you thought.....doesn't mean you got to triple down on it and try to manifest it somehow working out.  

I mean, clearly we missed on what we thought Bryce was/is.   Now can he be serviceable? I think so.  But there really is little point in pretending he is going to be better than a serviceable starter.   Which isn't what the gamble/swing was for. 

[rayzor]

all that matters is this....can we make it work? looks like we're figuring it out.

i'm excited to see how we carry this into next year.