Bryce Young PFF - Week 16

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, NAS said:

Once you can forget what we gave up for him and just look at him for what he is you start to appreciate what he can be and that he gives the team a chance to win. 

Was he worth the trade? No.   

Can he still help the team win and be the franchise QB?  I think Yes.

guess it depends on what you mean by franchise QB.  I don't think he can be that at this stage.  I think he can be as serviceable starter.  Just lacks the tools at this level to meet my definition of a franchise QB.   I do think he will be our QB for a couple years as we try to build up a respectable overall team/roster. 

[NAS]

6 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean, that is the definition of a safe gameplan coupled w/ Hubbard.  It's all check downs or throws to the outside and away from coverage.  

Looks fairly balanced actually, a couple of those deeper throws were drops. 

Do I need to post Bo Nix's passing chart from Thursday?  It was 80% checkdowns or behind the LOS yet everyone praises him and Payton  for being offensive gurus.  Bryce would have better numbers if our team can actually run a screen, but we get almost no YAC with those.   

This is the offense we have at the moment.  I do think Bryce can do more once he gets more weapons that can threaten consistently down the field.  XL was supposed to be that guy but we shall see

Edited 9 hours ago by NAS

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, NAS said:

Looks fairly balanced actually, a couple of those deeper throws were drops. 

Do I need to post Bo Nix's passing chart from Thursday?  It was 80% checkdowns or behind the LOS yet everyone praises him and Payton  for being offensive gurus.  Bryce would have better numbers if our team can actually run a screen, but we get almost no YAC with those.   

This is the offense we have at the moment.  I do think Bryce can do more once he gets more weapons that can threaten consistently down the field.  XL was supposed to be that guy but we shall see

Why are you so concerned about 1 game from bo nix?  Seems fuging odd you are fixated on him.  He is having a far superior year in his rookie outing with a bad team

[Tr3ach]

10 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean, that is the definition of a safe gameplan coupled w/ Hubbard.  It's all check downs or throws to the outside and away from coverage.  

He literally had 4 big time throws.  That is a really high number in a game no matter who the qb is.  That goes against your whole argument.  That's high no matter who the qb is and he has had the most in the NFL in a handful of weeks since he came back, and 4 this week could very well be the highest or at least close i would bet.

Edited 9 hours ago by Tr3ach

[NAS]

11 minutes ago, CRA said:

guess it depends on what you mean by franchise QB.  I don't think he can be that at this stage.  I think he can be as serviceable starter.  Just lacks the tools at this level to meet my definition of a franchise QB.   I do think he will be our QB for a couple years as we try to build up a respectable overall team/roster. 

A franchise QB in my mind is someone you feel good about giving a second contract to.  Will he ever be on level of Mahomes, Lamar, or Josh Allen?  Not even close, but those are unicorns.  If you're chasing those you're usually going to swing and miss and be bottom dwellers.  I am frankly tired of that. 

We had Baker and Darnold and didn't have enough patience with either of them even though they're clearly franchise caliber QBs. 

I think Drake Maye can be that guy, I do wish sometimes that we were able to draft him, a local kid and all.  But I am just happy that there's hope with Bryce and this coaching staff.  Let's build the roster and see how it goes next year.  

Edited 9 hours ago by NAS

[CRA]

1 minute ago, NAS said:

Looks fairly balanced actually, a couple of those deeper throws were drops. 

Do I need to post Bo Nix's passing chart from Thursday?  It was 80% checkdowns or behind the LOS yet everyone praises him and Payton  for being offensive gurus.  Bryce would have better numbers if our team can actually run a screen, but we get almost no YAC with those.   

This is the offense we have at the moment.  I do think Bryce can do more once he gets more weapons that can threaten consistently down the field.  XL was supposed to be that guy but we shall see

Bo Nix is bascially executing the Payton/Brees offense each week.  With the signature bomb throws mixed in of the young Brees years.   Every week he is consistently chucking it deep deep.  He also is a rookie and wasn't that wasn't the #1 overall pick. 

I mean, Bryce might be able to do some Russell Wilson moon balls and mix that in once we get better talent.  I still think a lot of NFL throws are off the table given the setup he would need to get the ball there. 

[NAS]

 

1 minute ago, CRA said:

Bo Nix is bascially executing the Payton/Brees offense each week.  With the signature bomb throws mixed in of the young Brees years.   Every week he is consistently chucking it deep deep.  He also is a rookie and wasn't that wasn't the #1 overall pick. 

I mean, Bryce might be able to do some Russell Wilson moon balls and mix that in once we get better talent.  I still think a lot of NFL throws are off the table given the setup he would need to get the ball there. 

Bryce would 100% exceed what Bo is doing in that offense, I have zero doubt.  

[PappyMay]

25 minutes ago, CRA said:

the gameplan was very QB friendly.    That aspect has a lot to do w/ the odds of ending up w/ a good grade.   Heavy run w/ a safe/conservative pass plan. 

I can agree with this, but scoring 30pts a game should do the trick on offense. Lets get this defense going and let Bryce keep building with this young core and one more year of his safety valve AT19. 

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, Tr3ach said:

He literally had 4 big time throws.  That is a really high number in a game no matter who the qb is.  That goes against your whole argument.  That's high no matter who the qb is and he has had the most in the NFL in a handful of weeks since he came back, and 4 this week could very well be the highest or at least close i would bet.

big time throws is sort of a weird stat though given what how they define them. 

I don't pay for PFF anymore.  Pro football reference has a disturbing amount of bad throws accounted to Bryce Young's name though given he sat for a big chunk of the season.  #8 in poor throws despite 23rd in pass attempts.  I mean, his strength really isn't his strength IMO.  He sort of just an odd ball in many ways.  Best part about Bryce is how slippery he is to date IMO. 

[CRA]

16 minutes ago, NAS said:

 

Bryce would 100% exceed what Bo is doing in that offense, I have zero doubt.  

I mean, he wouldn't.  Bryce doesn't naturally fit that O.  It's not the old man Brees offense.  That's the one Bryce techincally fits.   Brees could only pull that off because he was a certified HOF.  It's the young Brees O.   The haymakers have never been Bryce's game.  Not even college.  Bo Nix is throwing them every week.  That's part of why the small ball works in that setup so well.  Because the bombs are randomly coming.  D can't just play the small ball.     

[KSpan]

20 minutes ago, Tr3ach said:

He literally had 4 big time throws.  That is a really high number in a game no matter who the qb is.  That goes against your whole argument.  That's high no matter who the qb is and he has had the most in the NFL in a handful of weeks since he came back, and 4 this week could very well be the highest or at least close i would bet.

Ah yes, the classic and timeless 'Big Time Throws' HOF metric. Gold star for Bryce and the other QBs that make Big Time Throws.

That eyeroll aside, my position has always been that Bryce's ceiling is Bridgewater/Smith levels of effectiveness, which is not good enough to have a consistent shot at winning Super Bowls in today's NFL. My issue and concern with Bryce remains as it has always been - a lack of downfield dynamics. My position has also been that this is what really hampered the Saints with Brees at QB for the last nearly decade, the inability to truly attack downfield vs the top competition when the opportunities presented themselves.

That is likely complicated somewhat by the receivers on the roster and time will continue to sort that out if the roster is effectively managed. After watching the second half yesterday there were some very good throws, chiefly the throw over the middle while taking the shot that absolutely should have been roughing and then the superbly-placed TD to Moore, but still only 10 points produced and an inability to really close it out. That complete whiff on the third down pass was an untimely mistake but the kind that happens to all QBs and I don't think that's really outside of Bryce's current range of possibilities on any given throw anyway. I chuckled at the irony given all of the 'clutch' talk recently, but that's not really here or there when assessing the throw itself.

Yes, 30 points should be enough to win an NFL game, but the best teams have to be able to put up points and sustain drives when needed even if carrying an unreasonable part of the load. Getting 'close' with teams like the Chiefs and Eagles is to me more a signal of the limitations I mentioned earlier (Saints-esque inability to overcome the best competition) rather than an overly positive sign, and only time will tell if he and the team can move past that. Hopefully these final games show some increased dynamics and a continued growth toward true downfield effectiveness.

[BullCityP]

46 minutes ago, CRA said:

true, but it's a tough reality to accept often that it's all we can ask for....from the #1 overall pick, we gave up the farm for, in year 2.     

The reality is Bryce outplayed a Probowl QB vs a better defense with inferior weapons. IDK what else you can ask for from your #1 overall pick that you gave up the farm for 

[BIGH2001]

34 minutes ago, CRA said:

Bo Nix is bascially executing the Payton/Brees offense each week.  With the signature bomb throws mixed in of the young Brees years.   Every week he is consistently chucking it deep deep.  He also is a rookie and wasn't that wasn't the #1 overall pick. 

I mean, Bryce might be able to do some Russell Wilson moon balls and mix that in once we get better talent.  I still think a lot of NFL throws are off the table given the setup he would need to get the ball there. 

Maybe Bryce is executing the Canales offense? This isn’t Madden where you just throw bombs and rip the ball 30 yards downfield on every play. Executing a game plan, protecting the ball, and making big plays when there is an opportunity is how you win in the NFL. 

[mav1234]

42 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean, that is the definition of a safe gameplan coupled w/ Hubbard.  It's all check downs or throws to the outside and away from coverage.  

I said this before but I've felt since the Eagles game we've been having trouble with our intermediate/deep passing game, where it was one of his stronger areas vs KC and TB.  I don't know if this is the schemes we've faced or if it's Bryce, but I saw several times he didn't seem to throw to open guys. Maybe on the film those guys weren't actually so open. 

His PFF grade is a little higher than I expected but not too much. It's deliberated calculated without regard to things like how failing to ice a game sends it to OT. 

Hoping the last couple games bring consistency.  It's great having a QB that can get into the 90s in any kinda stat. As long as he keeps that Dallas game an anomaly since his return, it'll be a solid finish.