Dave Tepper gives Canales and Dan Morgan vote of confidence

[Johnstonny]

30 minutes ago, hepcat said:

They can’t reasonably fire a rookie head coach who was saddled with one of the worst first overall QBs of all time. And at times made said QB look decent to serviceable. 

If the team was 3-11 at this point next season, fire everyone. 

Yea, and start the cycle all over again. We need consistency and stability... if thats even possible..

[SCO96]

Here's are list of the 2025 draft picks. If they nail this draft things could turn around in a hurry for the Panthers.

Here's what I'd consider. You'll notice I'm focusing primarily on one side of the ball.

• First round pick (DT or DE who can stuff the run AND RUSH the passer, possibly TMC WR)
• Second-round pick (via LA Rams) (Best DT, DE, LB on board that you can pencil in as Day 1 Starter)
• Third round pick (Assuming you got 1st 2 rounds right...best defensive player....S, LB, CB, DL, CB)
• Fourth round pick (Center. Most starting centers in the NFL are chosen on Day 3 of the draft)
• Fifth round pick (BPA)
• Fifth Round pick (via Ravens) (BPA)
• Fifth-round pick (via NY Giants) (BPA)
• Seventh round pick (BPA)
• Seventh-round pick (via 49ers) (BPA)

I wouldn't be opposed to trading some of those low end picks away to move up higher into the 4th or 5th round. Stats show that undrafted players have a higher likelihood of making the team than a large percentage of players taken in rounds 6 and 7.

As bad as our team is, if we don't come away with 3 starters for the first 2 days of the draft I'd count that as a massive failure.

Edited 2 hours ago by SCO96

[Jackson113.2]

If they win less than Rhule, 5 games then can them.. yeah I said it...

[SCO96]

12 minutes ago, Jackson113.2 said:

If they win less than Rhule, 5 games then can them.. yeah I said it...

This offseason we lost 2 key starters (Burns, Luvu)and were not adequately replace due to the big emphasis on offense in the 2024 draft.

Two of our 3 best defensive players (Shaq, DB) were lost for the season in the 1st quarter of the season. No one was on the roster to step up and fill those voids.

Those facts alone should give Morgan and Canales another year even if they fail to get 5 wins. If we had scored one more TD or FG in either game we would have beat 3 playoff teams in row (KC, Tampa, Philly) despite our shaky defense and lack of proven weapons at the skill positions.

If we don't show any improvement in the win column in 2025 then I'd be inclined to agree with you.

[PanthersATL]

29 minutes ago, Johnstonny said:

Yea, and start the cycle all over again. We need consistency and stability... if thats even possible..

Firing a head coach in year two is not helping the consistency/stability requirement

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, SCO96 said:

This offseason we lost 2 key starters (Burns, Luvu)and were not adequately replace due to the big emphasis on offense in the 2024 draft.

Two of our 3 best defensive players (Shaq, DB) were lost for the season in the 1st quarter of the season. No one was on the roster to step up and fill those voids.

Those facts alone should give Morgan and Canales another year even if they fail to get 5 wins. If we had scored one more TD or FG in either game we would have beat 3 playoff teams in row (KC, Tampa, Philly) despite our shaky defense and lack of proven weapons at the skill positions.

If we don't show any improvement in the win column in 2025 then I'd be inclined to agree with you.

As we sit today, albeit before the draft and FA, what would you put our over under for wins at for 2025?  I think even with a excellent offseason we are still looking at 6 maybe 7 wins with this roster (ie defense) and assuming bryce gets a little better

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, PanthersATL said:

Firing a head coach in year two is not helping the consistency/stability requirement

I think everyone will get at least a 3rd year no matter what happens next season. 

[CarolinaLivin]

8 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

This offseason we lost 2 key starters (Burns, Luvu)and were not adequately replace due to the big emphasis on offense in the 2024 draft.

Two of our 3 best defensive players (Shaq, DB) were lost for the season in the 1st quarter of the season. No one was on the roster to step up and fill those voids.

Those facts alone should give Morgan and Canales another year even if they fail to get 5 wins. If we had scored one more TD or FG in either game we would have beat 3 playoff teams in row (KC, Tampa, Philly) despite our shaky defense and lack of proven weapons at the skill positions.

If we don't show any improvement in the win column in 2025 then I'd be inclined to agree with you.

1. They chose to get rid of Burns to instead use that money on offense

2. They could've offered more to luvu (not saying he would accept)

3. injuries happen every year

Look im not saying we should fire them but 1 and 2, they made those decisions. They are staying because they have to stay. We have to give them a chance to develop as a staff. We can't go into the offseason looking for our 5/6 or 7th HC in what 7 years (i didn't look up the actual number of HC's it would be in the time Tepper has been here) because we wouldn't be an organization that any top coach this cycle would want to come to as it would look like Tepper is getting involved again and etc. etc. But your points don't count as excuses to keep them to me.

Edited 2 hours ago by CarolinaLivin

[mav1234]

4 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

As we sit today, albeit before the draft and FA, what would you put our over under for wins at for 2025?  I think even with a excellent offseason we are still looking at 6 maybe 7 wins with this roster (ie defense) and assuming bryce gets a little better

Yeah, 6 or 7 makes sense assuming incremental Bryce improvement and not a backslide into last year. 

But we also could surprise in a weak division if some of our draft picks take big steps forward.

[KSpan]

 

35 minutes ago, Johnstonny said:

Yea, and start the cycle all over again. We need consistency and stability... if thats even possible..

 

5 minutes ago, PanthersATL said:

Firing a head coach in year two is not helping the consistency/stability requirement

There is of course nuance to the situation that can't be summed up in a single sentence, but if the team is 3-11 at this point next year the odds are that there has been no development and bad personnel moves were made. Arguments like these are why Rhule got the entirely undeserved year 3 - if it's clear that someone doesn't have it, you don't sit around and waste time for the sake of 'consistency/stability'.

That said, such a scenario would again point back at Tepper as the root dysfunction. Who knows if/when that would ever get corrected.

[CarolinaLivin]

2 minutes ago, KSpan said:

 

 

There is of course nuance to the situation that can't be summed up in a single sentence, but if the team is 3-11 at this point next year the odds are that there has been no development and bad personnel moves were made. Arguments like these are why Rhule got the entirely undeserved year 3 - if it's clear that someone doesn't have it, you don't sit around and waste time for the sake of 'consistency/stability'.

That said, such a scenario would again point back at Tepper as the root dysfunction. Who knows if/when that would ever get corrected.

Agree on the Tepper piece at the end for sure. But i think they stupidly gave Rhule the year 3 based off his college history of year 3 being the year they "put it all together". 

[electro's horse]

Vote of confidence is basically

https://youtu.be/_EVUPCJwQwA?si=majO9WxUFsQ4ufo-

[frankw]

9 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Yeah, 6 or 7 makes sense assuming incremental Bryce improvement and not a backslide into last year. 

But we also could surprise in a weak division if some of our draft picks take big steps forward.

It really is true that outside of the occasional dogfight rival game this division is mediocre at best on a good day. Brees and Payton gone Ryan gone Brady gone. And all we've been doing is flailing around under the Tepper's when we should have a guaranteed playoff spot against this lot.

[mav1234]

3 minutes ago, frankw said:

It really is true that outside of the occasional dogfight rival game this division is mediocre at best on a good day. Brees and Payton gone Ryan gone Brady gone. And all we've been doing is flailing around under the Tepper's when we should have a guaranteed playoff spot against this lot.

Tepper has fuged us so much. I wonder if we'll ever know definitively what power he exerted. It seems he's finally letting Canales and Morgan alone, so I'm really hopeful.

The one heartening thing to me is we finally did the smart thing this last offseason and invested a ton in our OL. The problem is that left the D neglected... But I think this offseason can do a lot. I'm not as down on our offseason as others - our draft looks much worse because our 2nd round pick was a dud, but free agency wasn't bad, and we finally have young offensive weapons to have some excitement about. The 2 later round drafted D players both had some nicer games late this season - which is about what you can ask for.