Prime Cam Newton vs Current Josh Allen

[CanadianCat]

Just now, CRA said:

Time made Jake more beloved IMO than he was in real time.  

This made me laugh cause this is 100% true.. 

Jake was like a 24-32 ranked QB in the league. Like if you could upgrade you would. But he was also beloved because he was like 'your dad' playing QB.. 

I also only started watching the Panthers when he was the QB so he holds a lot of nostalgia for me.. but you are right.. lets not forget that when he was here we always wanted to move on from him. 

[CRA]

1 minute ago, CanadianCat said:

This made me laugh cause this is 100% true.. 

Jake was like a 24-32 ranked QB in the league. Like if you could upgrade you would. But he was also beloved because he was like 'your dad' playing QB.. 

I also only started watching the Panthers when he was the QB so he holds a lot of nostalgia for me.. but you are right.. lets not forget that when he was here we always wanted to move on from him. 

I frankly love Jake Delhomme.  But yeah, I love him today.  I love his story.  Loved he made the average dude think, hell....maybe.  I liked he gambled.  I liked pre Tommy Jone attitude. 

In real time?  I didn't love Jake.  I often screamed at him the moment he launched up a deep ball downfield because it was so often a poor decision that somehow would work out to 89 in triple coverage.  

There was a magic to Jake that is best appreciated after he was done playing.  Which I do.  But there is some revisionist history on how much the fanbase loved him in real time of his career. 

[Stingray3030]

14 hours ago, CRA said:

I frankly love Jake Delhomme.  But yeah, I love him today.  I love his story.  Loved he made the average dude think, hell....maybe.  I liked he gambled.  I liked pre Tommy Jone attitude. 

In real time?  I didn't love Jake.  I often screamed at him the moment he launched up a deep ball downfield because it was so often a poor decision that somehow would work out to 89 in triple coverage.  

There was a magic to Jake that is best appreciated after he was done playing.  Which I do.  But there is some revisionist history on how much the fanbase loved him in real time of his career. 

Jake was one of those 90's gun slinger QB's - those guys were always fun and frustrating QB's to watch.  Then you paired him with Steve Smith and the combo gave us the most electric passing game to watch in the history of the franchise.  Smitty elevated the love for Jake - without him I think the gun slinger frustration would have been much higher.  Jake's story and who he was just added to that appreciation for me.

The biggest difference in him and Cam to me (other than the obvious play style differences) was the expectations walking in the door.  Cam was the #1 overall pick.  From day 1 he was going to take over the NFL, be the next big thing, and be the best player in the league for a decade.....that was the expectation put on him.  Jake came in with no hype, no real pressure, just get Rodney Peete out of here and try not to screw it up.  When the game was on the line in 2011-2018 we all said "Cam has to go out there and make some plays and carry us home".  When it was 2003-2009 we all said "Smitty has to go out there and make some plays and carry us home".  

[Car123]

On 1/28/2025 at 10:58 AM, Stingray3030 said:

I will never understand why people don't get this.  Literally my point every single conversation about Cam.

Was Andrew Luck a below average passer?

Edited yesterday at 05:37 PM by Car123

[Davidson Deac II]

23 hours ago, CanadianCat said:

This made me laugh cause this is 100% true.. 

Jake was like a 24-32 ranked QB in the league. Like if you could upgrade you would. But he was also beloved because he was like 'your dad' playing QB.. 

I also only started watching the Panthers when he was the QB so he holds a lot of nostalgia for me.. but you are right.. lets not forget that when he was here we always wanted to move on from him. 

Jake actually had a pretty good run from 03-05, when he was middle of the pack ratings wise.  His rating in 05 was top 10 in the NFL.  He fell off quickly after that, but John Fox just couldn't bring himself to admit it.  

[Stingray3030]

19 hours ago, Car123 said:

Was Andrew Luck a below average passer?

Nope - let's see where you are going with this...

[shaqattaq]

On 12/16/2024 at 12:44 PM, SmokinwithWilly said:

On 12/16/2024 at 12:34 PM, LinvilleGorge said:

I just wish we'd built an offense around Cam like Buffalo has for Allen. We never had the weapons they have. Not that we didn't try, we just chose poorly with guys like KB and Funchess and lesser Kalil.

Dave was determined to get him receivers with long arms because Cam tended to throw high. Disregard the fact his line couldn't block the hallway at a nursing home and give him time to pass without having to jail break out of the pocket. Such a sad waste of talent. 

If I had a dollar for every time I wished we had fired Gettleman a year earlier and promoted Beane, I'd be retired now, with a bigger boat!

[CRA]

Would you give back your MVP award for a Super Bowl win? 

Cam Newton:  No. 

 

[Car123]

5 hours ago, Stingray3030 said:

Nope - let's see where you are going with this...

How do you explain his poor completion percentage and interception rate? Why give him a pass but not Newton?

[Stingray3030]

17 minutes ago, Car123 said:

How do you explain his poor completion percentage and interception rate? Why give him a pass but not Newton?

Well for one you are cherry picking 2 stats - but which years are you referring to?  Career stats?

Assuming you mean for their career if you wanna look at stats let's do that.  This is Luck vs Cam each time

Comp % - 60.8% vs 59.9% - Luck by nearly 1%

Int % - 2.5 vs 2.7 - Luck by 10%

TD % - 5.2 vs 4.3 - Luck by 20%

AY/A - 7.1 vs 6.87 - Luck by 3%

Passer Rate - 89.5 vs 85.2 - Luck by 5%

Are there other passer stats we should use?  If so I can add them.

But using these shows the difference between a slightly below average passer, and a slightly above average passer IMO.  I would also add that timing matters - Cam can into the league at 60% and 9 years later was still at 60%.  Luck came in at 54% and at 67%, 66% over his last 2 full seasons.  So I am not even extrapolating here but he was clearly showing consistent elite improvement.  

The biggest thing that looking at final season stats doesn't show you is variation.  Two guys could have the exact same final % yet one ranged from 57-63 while the other ranged from 52-65....which one is better?  In my opinion the more consistent one would be considered better.  Cam in short stretches was a dominant, accurate passer.  In longer stretches he would overthrow simple out routes.  Luck was much more consistent and reliable as a passer - and statistically he was significantly better.  

But to be clear - I would never say Luck was Elite - I think he was trending that way though.  Cam was an above average QB but a below average passer.  He wasn't reliable in the air for more than 1 game.