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Prime Cam Newton vs Current Josh Allen

Panther8989

By Panther8989,
in Carolina Panthers

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pantherclaw Grand Master

pantherclaw

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Manna said:

I don't think you remember how good Cam was for us. Cam wasn't carried by the defense or the running game. He wasn't perfect by any means, but there were plenty of times where he was the only source of offense, and plenty of times where he had to bail out the defense when they weren't doing well. He was for us from 2011-2019 what 89 was for the 2002-2011 teams. 

Where to you even begin to think i don't know how good Cam was for us?  I'm sorry, any response starting with that doesn't get the rest of my attention.  

Edited by pantherclaw
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pantherclaw Grand Master

pantherclaw

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20 hours ago, frankw said:

His rookie year the defense gave up the fifth most yards in the league. That was not a top unit by any means.

2012 the defense trended toward middle of the pack. 2013-2015 were the best years.

As far as the running game in Carolina we had talented backs but if I recall Jonathan Stewart was the only one to hit 1k rushing yards and he did that only the one time. But it cannot be understated that in short yardage situations Cam was getting the ball. At one point he was damn near the best in the league at it.

I will say as far as 2015 goes it's important to note that even as good as that years defense was we won numerous very close games.

Idk why these discussions have to bring about such sourness. Those were some of the best years in franchise history and Cam Newton regardless of how anyone may feel about him personally was a jolt of much needed life to what was at that time a rudderless franchise. We didn't know how good we had it. That's all that needs to be said.

I'm not sore about it at all. I love Cam. Did he live up to his potential? No.  He didn't.  He still was a hell of a QB, leader,  and play maker. 

I just know how if anyone says anything other than cam is a god, people's feelings get hurt. 

Edited by pantherclaw
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Manna Mentor

Manna

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6 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

Where to you even begin to think i don't know how good Cam was for us?  I'm sorry, any response starting with that doesn't get the rest of my attention.  

thank you for putting in the time, attention, and effort in responding to my posts then.

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CanadianCat Veteran

CanadianCat

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3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Just say you don't like Cam. It's fine. But don't quote the stats then start moving the goal posts to dismiss the ones that don't fit the narrative. 

This is what drives me bonkers. Maybe it's cause race is such an issue down south but I dont know why ever time someone is a critic on Cam its always met with a 'wink wink' "you dont like him cause he's black"  type comment. Nothing to do with the actual point they are making.. 

This seems to also come into the conversation when on this site we talk about favorite QB's and people take Delhomme over Cam.. Maybe some people just liked Delhomme better... 

 

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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6 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

This is what drives me bonkers. Maybe it's cause race is such an issue down south but I dont know why ever time someone is a critic on Cam its always met with a 'wink wink' "you dont like him cause he's black"  type comment. Nothing to do with the actual point they are making.. 

This seems to also come into the conversation when on this site we talk about favorite QB's and people take Delhomme over Cam.. Maybe some people just liked Delhomme better... 

 

Where did I mention race? If that triggered you  into going on a racial tangent that's on you.

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SmokinwithWilly Grand Master

SmokinwithWilly

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3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We all know how he injured his shoulder and then that TJ Watt finished it off. My point is that Cam's career was cut short because of injuries that impacted his ability as a passer while his running ability was largely unimpacted. Yet many people still want to label him a "running QB". All those people spent his entire career talking about how his career would be cut short because they figured he'd be like a RB. All the wear and tear would impact his ability to run and then he'd be done yet lo and behold his career was cut short because his throwing ability but those folks don't want to acknowledge any of that. Just like they don't want to acknowledge that he was a high 60s percentage passer in an offensive system that wasn't constantly requiring him to throw the ball downfield to receivers who couldn't separate.

Then they just start ranting and calling you a troll if you point these things out. LOL

Cam took a lot of hits as a running QB, far more than any other QB since he came into the league. His shoulder did get finished off by the hit from TJ Watt, but in all likelihood, his body wouldn't have held up to the continued beating he took for him to continue playing into his mid/late 30's. People point it out because the RB cliff is at 30 because of how much they are hit. If we had an OC that could have developed a plan other than Cam Smash, the "running QB" wouldn't be a label. But it was because he was. Cam got injured trying to make a tackle after an INT that should have been blown dead, then TJ hit him perfectly to finish it off. If that hadn't happened, who knows how long his career would have gone. But I still think it's pretty safe to say that taking 200 plus hits a year wasn't going to be sustainable if he planned on having a long career. 

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frankw Grand Master

frankw

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, CanadianCat said:

This is what drives me bonkers. Maybe it's cause race is such an issue down south but I dont know why ever time someone is a critic on Cam its always met with a 'wink wink' "you dont like him cause he's black"  type comment. Nothing to do with the actual point they are making.. 

This seems to also come into the conversation when on this site we talk about favorite QB's and people take Delhomme over Cam.. Maybe some people just liked Delhomme better... 

 

The race element can't just be removed sadly. It was present often throughout those years. And to your point about "down South" I will have to point out from my own personal experience the only person I ever encountered who openly used a racial slur in reference to Cam Newton was a Canadian Patriots fan after that Monday night game.

I like Jake Delhomme a lot. Both as a player and as a person. But if there is a hypothetical scenario where you have to pick one or the other in their prime and someone picks Jake I would have to question if they're playing with a full deck. Many years from now people will realize how much Cam did for future generations of QB's.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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3 minutes ago, frankw said:

I like Jake Delhomme a lot. Both as a player and as a person. But if there is a hypothetical scenario where you have to pick one or the other in their prime and someone picks Jake I would have to question if they're playing with a full deck. Many years from now people will realize how much Cam did for future generations of QB's.

Time made Jake more beloved IMO than he was in real time.  

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CanadianCat Veteran

CanadianCat

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4 minutes ago, frankw said:

The race element can't just be removed sadly. It was present often throughout those years. And to your point about "down South" I will have to point out from my own personal experience the only person I ever encountered who openly used a racial slur in reference to Cam Newton was a Canadian Patriots fan after that Monday night game.

Fair enough. We are not immune to it obviously either. 

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