"Don’t Look Now, but Bryce Young is Closing the Gap on C.J. Stroud"

[mav1234]

14 minutes ago, Icege said:

tbh, CJ looks the way he did in college. He's lights out without pressure, but when he's under duress he panics and gets it to the check down asap. Go back and watch his last season at Ohio State and you'll see that the only game that didn't happen was Georgia when he really stepped it up. Keep CJ clean and he'll keep getting it to their big play weapons with pinpoint accuracy.

It is strange though seeing Panthers fans absolve CJ of any responsibility only to turn around and blame Bryce for being sacked 60+ times last season.

CJ was pressured often last year, only barely less than Bryce, tho (2% less of his dropbacks). So he performed well under pressure then.  This year has been different. I think it's probably a combination of things including a sophomore slump and his OL being even worse. 

CJ definitely ate some sacks he shouldn't have vs the Ravens, but just like Bryce last year, he's also getting decked because of completely unblocked rushers.  And like Bryce last year CJ is flat out missing dudes when he has time sometimes.  And yet this season of his is eons better than Bryce's was last year...

We'll see what they both do going forward, still entire careers to go. 

[mav1234]

21 minutes ago, NAS said:

Agreed, he was very inaccurate.  I think something's not right with him mentally or emotionally at the moment.  The sobbing on the sidelines last week was a little weird even though I know that's his friend.  

On the sobbing - I think they all knew how serious an injury it was so I don't see it that way.

But he was unusually inaccurate lately. Sophomore slumps are real things, it could just be that.

[MillionDollarCam]

49 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Not saying we have to break the bank; TE is a position you can draft later and pay less, so it is a good value to have a good TE. Who does Miami have at WR to keep Jonnu covered with LBs? Hill, Waddle, and if they need more speed and quickness, Malik Washington from UVA.   He is benefiting from the attention the Fish's WRs get every play.  Speed.  Tua needs a solid TE who probably plays beneath the radar a lot. 

I am talking Greg O good.  Kincaid in Buffalo has 424 yards and he is ranked 24th among TEs in receiving.  He has potential, and in that system, he is likely to not get much more than that.  Ja'Tavion Sanders has 29 catches--and he got 15 in three games--which is promising, but not dominant--he is not even listed in the top 32.  Tremble, fwiw, has 21 catches.  I think these two would be excellent #2 and #3 TE options, but Sanders is not really showing Alpha chromosomes at this time.

However, to your point, if we bring in some stud WRs, our TEs get better and they get open more.  We are close. 

If we had the luxury of drafting a tight end I’d trade down and take Tyler Warren. I think he’s going to be elite. Just too many holes to plug on defense right now.

[Icege]

That looks an awful lot like the way Bryce was playing last season...

• speeding up his reads/rushing to the check down
• eyes starting to linger on the pass rush
• leaving plays on the field

Protecting the QB, especially a recently-drafted one, is priority #1 not only for the purposes of winning games but also for developing said QB. If it's true for CJ this season it was most certainly true for Bryce last season.

I don't understand what is so controversial about that.

[Icege]

15 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

CJ was pressured often last year, only barely less than Bryce, tho (2% less of his dropbacks). So he performed well under pressure then.  This year has been different. I think it's probably a combination of things including a sophomore slump and his OL being even worse. 

CJ definitely ate some sacks he shouldn't have vs the Ravens, but just like Bryce last year, he's also getting decked because of completely unblocked rushers.  And like Bryce last year CJ is flat out missing dudes when he has time sometimes.  And yet this season of his is eons better than Bryce's was last year...

We'll see what they both do going forward, still entire careers to go. 

As bad as things are for the Texans this season, CJ isn't playing behind his 6th starting LG + 7th starting RG while being forced to lean on the unbeatable DJ Chark as his WR1 like Bryce was last season. I'd say those (and other factors, of course) played a major role in Bryce's rookie season being as bad as it was.

If we want to talk about this season and those first two games tho, 100% on Bryce. No ifs, ands, nor buts.

Edited 15 hours ago by Icege

[TD alt]

4 minutes ago, Icege said:

That looks an awful lot like the way Bryce was playing last season...

• speeding up his reads/rushing to the check down
• eyes starting to linger on the pass rush
• leaving plays on the field

Protecting the QB, especially a recently-drafted one, is priority #1 not only for the purposes of winning games but also for developing said QB. If it's true for CJ this season it was most certainly true for Bryce last season.

I don't understand what is so controversial about that.

On that specific play, I think CJ thought that he had a window where Mixon could get in, and that would only work by getting the ball to Mixon quickly. Of course it didn't work. Though the analyst may have a broader point, I don't know, I don't know that this play is representative of that point.

[frankw]

9 minutes ago, Icege said:

Protecting the QB, especially a recently-drafted one, is priority #1 not only for the purposes of winning games but also for developing said QB. If it's true for CJ this season it was most certainly true for Bryce last season.

I don't understand what is so controversial about that.

There is nothing controversial about wanting to protect the QB and wanting to invest in protecting the QB almost everyone here has agreed on that and even people who have been Bryce skeptics had wanted us to go even further and draft C instead of a running back with an already torn ACL.

This narrative you're pushing that no one wanted to protect our QB or invest in the OL because they wanted him to do it all by himself is nonsense and you know it.

[Icege]

2 minutes ago, TD alt said:

On that specific play, I think CJ thought that he had a window where Mixon could get in, and that would only work by getting the ball to Mixon quickly. Of course it didn't work. Though the analyst may have a broader point, I don't know, I don't know that this play is representative of that point.

From what I can see there's the slant on the left side, the drag route ran by the slot WR who motioned across to the right, an in route, and the TE moves out into the flat to block for Mixon.

I can understand not getting it to the slant on the left given the pre-snap read. It's the check down to Mixon when the LBs stay on the goal line rather than hitting that dig on the back line where the effects of getting hit shows imo.

[MHS831]

22 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

If we had the luxury of drafting a tight end I’d trade down and take Tyler Warren. I think he’s going to be elite. Just too many holes to plug on defense right now.

I do too--not sure about any after that.  Maybe the kid from Bowling Green?  Boom or bust. 

[NAS]

This is part of the issue, I am all about having confidence but staying humble.  This isn’t it

https://twitter.com/trainwrecksprts/status/1872079504002461764?s=46

 

 

 

 

[mav1234]

2 minutes ago, Icege said:

As bad as things are for the Texans this season, CJ isn't playing behind his 6th starting LG + 7th starting RG while being forced to lean on the unbeatable DJ Chark as his WR1 like Bryce was last season. I'd say those (and other factors, of course) played a major role in Bryce's rookie season being as bad as it was.

If we want to talk about this season and those first two games tho, 100% on Bryce. No ifs, ands, or buts.

So I agree the OL has mattered to more. Stroud is being knocked around as much or more than BY last year, minus the sack numbers since he doesn't just call over. And he's still performing better than BY last year and overall on the season better this year. Stroud is being pressured hit, etc more often than Bryce was last year. He's taken less sacks but still a ton. For instance he's pressured on a higher percent of plays (27% of snaps vs 24.2% last year for BY). Hurried 65 times and hit 51, vs 38 and 50. Despite this Stroud's bad throw % is only 16.7% (Bryce is over 21 this year and last). He's throwing fewer INTs as a percent (2.3 vs 2.8) and more TDs (3.6 vs 3.1) than Bryce this year, let alone last year... So yes he's not playing as well cause of his OL and that certainly was a big contributor for Bryce last year but even in CJs bad year he is overall having a better year than Bryce in either year.

And his receivers have missed TONS of games, so that isn't some huge defense of him.  But yes he has more weapons than Bryce, especially last year. Important to note Nico Collins wasn't much of a weapon before Stroud tho.

Anyway I'm excited to see how both their careers goes.  I'm not throwing either of them out.

[Icege]

56 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

So I agree the OL has mattered to more. Stroud is being knocked around as much or more than BY last year, minus the sack numbers since he doesn't just call over. And he's still performing better than BY last year and overall on the season better this year. Stroud is being pressured hit, etc more often than Bryce was last year. He's taken less sacks but still a ton. For instance he's pressured on a higher percent of plays (27% of snaps vs 24.2% last year for BY). Hurried 65 times and hit 51, vs 38 and 50. Despite this Stroud's bad throw % is only 16.7% (Bryce is over 21 this year and last). He's throwing fewer INTs as a percent (2.3 vs 2.8) and more TDs (3.6 vs 3.1) than Bryce this year, let alone last year... So yes he's not playing as well cause of his OL and that certainly was a big contributor for Bryce last year but even in CJs bad year he is overall having a better year than Bryce in either year.

And his receivers have missed TONS of games, so that isn't some huge defense of him.  But yes he has more weapons than Bryce, especially last year. Important to note Nico Collins wasn't much of a weapon before Stroud tho.

Anyway I'm excited to see how both their careers goes.  I'm not throwing either of them out.

Oh, no doubt those WRs have missed a lot this season. That's why I mentioned earlier that injuries have made things hard for the Texans the same way that they made it hard for Panthers last season. Addressing Nico: his head coaches were David Culley and Lovie Smith for those first two years... Who in the world is expecting a rookie WR under Culley or a second year WR under Lovie to light it up with THE Davis Mills?  I'd say that that was a mutually beneficial situation for CJ and Nico rather than CJ being the only reason Nico got an extension as is occasionally implied here.

re: stats - Was curious to how the numbers looked when comparing starts and got the following per start (removed the ones from Bryce's games that he came in as a backup to stay consistent with starts)

Player	Year	Hrry	Hits	Prss	Sacks
CJ Stroud	2023	3.1	2.5	8.2	2.5
CJ Stroud	2024	4.1	3.2	10.5	3.3
Bryce Young	2023	2.4	3.1	9.4	3.9
Bryce Young	2024	3.4	3.6	9.3	2.3

Stroud has been hurried more in both seasons, but those seem to convert to hits a lot less often than with Bryce. That suggests to me that it isn't a matter of Bryce being taken down easily as much as it is him still trying to make a play happen vs. getting rid of it. This season, Stroud is being hit a little more often than 2023 Bryce but 2024 Bryce is still taking more shots. I think the big difference that we're seeing this season is that CJ is being pressured and hurried even more like you said, but Bryce is taking sacks as often as CJ was last season. Biiig difference for both guys.

Another big difference (imo) is that the Texans nearly fielded a top 10 defense vs. Carolina's bottom 5 last season. Now, Carolina is dead last at #32 while the Texans' defense dropped into the bottom 10. That's going to force more bad situational football than good for the offense (as we've seen here in Carolina).

Edited 13 hours ago by Icege

[Silent Majority]

LOLFFS!

[CamWhoaaCam]

Bryce right now can do more with less.

 

We might have selected the best QB after all. Next year should tell us for sure who was the best QB in that draft. Both Levis and AR both might be backups next season.