Dallas Game

[grimesgoat]

2 hours ago, rayzor said:

so the rest of the season you're sitting starters. that's how you do it? 

or do you intentionally call up bad plays?

or do you pull players aside and tell them to half ass it? 

again, just trying to figure out how this tanking thing works. 

Good luck getting your answers.

My hope is that Panthers play hard and young guys get lots of reps.  Build chemistry on the line and between Bryce and receivers.  If we are underdogs and we lose, I won't lose any sleep.

But if we are favored, like this week vs. Dallas, I will be disappointed if we lose. Draft status be damned.

[rayzor]

1 minute ago, grimesgoat said:

Good luck getting your answers.

My hope is that Panthers play hard and young guys get lots of reps.  Build chemistry on the line and between Bryce and receivers.  If we are underdogs and we lose, I won't lose any sleep.

But if we are favored, like this week vs. Dallas, I will be disappointed if we lose. Draft status be damned.

i figure i won't get anything other than the same old "you just don't understand why it's important to do it!" and then when i push for specifics on how to do it "i've already told you, duh!" 

[PappyMay]

Looks like Overshown's (starting linebacker) knee injury last night is serious and can't imagine he plays this week. Small break but at this point i'll take it. I really want to win this week. Beebee the starting center left with a concussion too, but that offensive line looked the same without him.

[Jon Snow]

2 minutes ago, PappyMay said:

Looks like Overshown's (starting linebacker) knee injury last night is serious and can't imagine he plays this week. Small break but at this point i'll take it. I really want to win this week. Beebee the starting center left with a concussion too, but that offensive line looked the same without him.

The injury to Overshown looked career ending. And if I heard them correctly he hasn't been off IR very long from a similar injury. 

[PappyMay]

6 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

The injury to Overshown looked career ending. And if I heard them correctly he hasn't been off IR very long from a similar injury. 

I heard them say he missed all of his 2023 rookie season ,but didnt hear about what was the injury. Also from the University of Texas.

[rayzor]

read this reaction from Parsons on the loss to the Bengals and Overshown injury. 

https://www.dallascowboys.com/news/micah-parsons-on-gutting-loss-to-bengals-overshown-injury-i-won-t-wish-this-on-anybody

he sounds all tore up about the injury and just how much they are all struggling to keep their heads up this season.

Sorry about losing Overshown and hope it's not as bad as everyone thinks it might be.

aside from that...i hope that y'alls plane ride back to dallas is absolutely miserable because of the pounding we put on you guys. 

[Jon Snow]

3 minutes ago, PappyMay said:

I heard them say he missed all of his 2023 rookie season ,but didnt hear about what was the injury. Also from the University of Texas.

Yeah I didn't catch it either. But the way his leg got bent sideways had to be excruciating. I just don't know how he can play again after an injury like that.

Edited December 10, 2024 by Jon Snow

[fanpanther]

This is the panthers one remaining shot at a win for the season.  I think its a toss up.  

[tukafan21]

11 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

It's only meaningless to fans that are looking for our next draft pick. NFL players don't spend their lives working to be the best to intentionally play 50% to ensure a high draft pick. 

Each week when the whistle blows I want to see us win. I am not upset too much if we give a good effort and lose but I want us to win. The Cowboys are a Hated team in Panther nation and hoping we lose to them shows you're not much of a Panther fan. 

 

7 hours ago, rayzor said:

so the rest of the season you're sitting starters. that's how you do it? 

or do you intentionally call up bad plays?

or do you pull players aside and tell them to half ass it? 

again, just trying to figure out how this tanking thing works. 

Why is this so hard for people to understand?  At no point did I say the team should intentionally lose or tank the rest of the season, just that I hope we lose out.

No, the players/team aren't trying to lose, they are playing 100% and attempting to win (however if a player is dinged up a bit, having them sit instead of fighting through it to play is the way to go for a number of reasons).

But I'm not hoping they win, I want us to show fight, show improvement, but in the end, lose the game because I know it's what is best for the franchise in the long term.  

There is a grand canyon sized gap between trying to lose and hoping we lose, it's not hard to understand the difference between them.

The team, players, coaches, etc, don't try to lose, but as fans, we can hope they lose for the betterment of the franchise's future.

I'd rather be happy for the next 10 years because we built a contending team than be happy for 10 minutes by winning our 4th game in a lost season.  If that means "rooting against us" to accomplish that goal, I'm comfortable with that because I can see the bigger picture and that's more important to me than the immediate satisfaction.

And I put that in quotes because I don't view that as rooting against us.  Rooting for us to show fight and improvement but still losing to help the franchise, in my mind, is actually rooting for us.  It's just not rooting for this team on the field that particular Sunday, it's rooting for us as a franchise.

Edited December 10, 2024 by tukafan21

[ProcessBlue2]

4 hours ago, fanpanther said:

This is the panthers one remaining shot at a win for the season.  I think its a toss up.  

I disagree. 

Arizona is playing like garbage lately, went to OT against Tampa, Atlanta is imploding.

[HaricotVert]

50 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

 

Why is this so hard for people to understand?  At no point did I say the team should intentionally lose or tank the rest of the season, just that I hope we lose out.

No, the players/team aren't trying to lose, they are playing 100% and attempting to win (however if a player is dinged up a bit, having them sit instead of fighting through it to play is the way to go for a number of reasons).

But I'm not hoping they win, I want us to show fight, show improvement, but in the end, lose the game because I know it's what is best for the franchise in the long term.  

There is a grand canyon sized gap between trying to lose and hoping we lose, it's not hard to understand the difference between them.

The team, players, coaches, etc, don't try to lose, but as fans, we can hope they lose for the betterment of the franchise's future.

I'd rather be happy for the next 10 years because we built a contending team than be happy for 10 minutes by winning our 4th game in a lost season.  If that means "rooting against us" to accomplish that goal, I'm comfortable with that because I can see the bigger picture and that's more important to me than the immediate satisfaction.

And I put that in quotes because I don't view that as rooting against us.  Rooting for us to show fight and improvement but still losing to help the franchise, in my mind, is actually rooting for us.  It's just not rooting for this team on the field that particular Sunday, it's rooting for us as a franchise.

Hoping your team will lose is weird. 
 

I never know when the last game I will ever see will be but I want it to be a win. 

[tukafan21]

7 minutes ago, HaricotVert said:

Hoping your team will lose is weird. 
 

I never know when the last game I will ever see will be but I want it to be a win. 

So don't look at it as hoping your team will lose, look at it as hoping your team can add an elite difference maker in the draft, because that's what you're really hoping for and in reality, that's what you're rooting for.

Would people have rather won an extra couple of games back in 2010 at the expense of being in position to draft Cam?

Or how about the next year when we got Kuechly?  If we won an extra game or two that previous year, we'd have likely missed out on him in that draft too.

Again, we're not one or two players away from contending next year.  We're not already sitting in that 10ish pick range where there might not be a big difference if we fall back a couple extra picks.  If we were those things, then yes, you want the team to win to help them build upon next season.  

As I said earlier, it's like the Lions of 2 years ago, they were only a couple pieces away from having a really competitive team, they won a bunch of late games to build their momentum and turned that into an NFCCS appearance last year and are now the best team in the NFC.  

That's not us right now, we're more like the Lions of Campbell's first season where they ended up with the 2nd pick in the draft and took Hutchinson.  

Once you're sitting in that Top 5 of the draft and still have as many holes as we do, meaningless wins only hurt the franchise overall in the long term.  Winning at this point is cutting off our nose to spite our face.

Edited December 10, 2024 by tukafan21

[grimesgoat]

3 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

So don't look at it as hoping your team will lose, look at it as hoping your team can add an elite difference maker in the draft, because that's what you're really hoping for and in reality, that's what you're rooting for.

Would people have rather won an extra couple of games back in 2010 at the expense of being in position to draft Cam?

Or how about the next year when we got Kuechly?  If we won an extra game or two that previous year, we'd have likely missed out on him in that draft too.

Again, we're not one or two players away from contending next year.  We're not already sitting in that 10ish pick range where there might not be a big difference if we fall back a couple extra picks.  If we were those things, then yes, you want the team to win to help them build upon next season.  

As I said earlier, it's like the Lions of 2 years ago, they were only a couple pieces away from having a really competitive team, they won a bunch of late games to build their momentum and turned that into an NFCCS appearance last year and are now the best team in the NFC.

But once you're sitting in that Top 5 of the draft and still have as many holes as we do, meaningless wins only hurt the franchise overall in the long term.  Winning at this point is cutting off our nose to spite our face.

I get what you are saying, but there is a mental part of the game that is difficult to measure.  If you walk out and expect to lose (because you always do), chances are pretty good you will lose.  However if you win, it builds confidence.  You learn what it takes to win and you go about doing those things.  Winning breeds winning.

If you've played competitive team sports, you understand these things.

I don't mind if a young team such as ours loses an individual game, as long as we are improving and not quitting.  And I'm not seeing anyone quit out there.

The real problem I have is the people who say things like 'typical Panthers, winning a meaningless game and messing up their draft position.  They can't even tank right'.  Those guys are losers.

[tukafan21]

16 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

I get what you are saying, but there is a mental part of the game that is difficult to measure.  If you walk out and expect to lose (because you always do), chances are pretty good you will lose.  However if you win, it builds confidence.  You learn what it takes to win and you go about doing those things.  Winning breeds winning.

If you've played competitive team sports, you understand these things.

I don't mind if a young team such as ours loses an individual game, as long as we are improving and not quitting.  And I'm not seeing anyone quit out there.

The real problem I have is the people who say things like 'typical Panthers, winning a meaningless game and messing up their draft position.  They can't even tank right'.  Those guys are losers.

Yes, winning can breed winning, but 1 or 2 meaningless wins at the end of a lost season isn't going to do that.  Winning 4 out of 5-6 games to close out a season is the type of thing you'd need to carry over into the offseason and into the next.

I think it's MUCH easier to make an argument that our improved play and winning say 2 more games could significantly hurt our future than if we were to have been playing awful the last few weeks and the rest of the season.

If Bryce hadn't shown this improvement the last few weeks, he would be gone in the offseason, traded to the highest bidder and we try to move on.  But now that he's shown improvement, he's going to be the week 1 starter next year.  If we win another game or two, it also could take us out of the T-Mac/Hunter/Johnson range of player that we'd be looking at in the Top 5 of the draft.

What happens if Bryce then doesn't show any more improvement next year, or even worse, reverts back to his rookie season or early this season's play?

We'd have lost that elite difference maker at the top of the draft and then wasted another season on Bryce before trying to move on from him in 2026, except without having T-Mac, or Hunter, or Johnson, and instead having more of a raw prospect from that 10-12 spot in the draft who may not become the superstar those other players could be.

That's not a far fetched scenario, if anything it's probably more likely to happen than not, as personally, I still don't think Bryce has a snowball's chance in hell at becoming a franchise QB and we're going to be looking to replace him after next year anyways.  

If you're a true Bryce believer, maybe you look at it differently, but even if you are that true Bryce believer, wouldn't you then want to be in position to give him a true elite weapon in T-Mac?  Would you really rather get 1 extra meaningless win this year if it meant not being able to get him that weapon next year?  Is that one more win this year going to help Bryce succeed next year more than getting T-Mac would?

In the end, I'm playing the odds.  And the odds are that our franchise will be better off 5 years from now if we end up in the Top 5 of the draft than if we fall to that 10ish range of the draft.

Edited December 10, 2024 by tukafan21