Serious question: Jameis Winston or Bryce Young straight-up?

[Basbear]

 

[tukafan21]

33 minutes ago, Basbear said:

 

This is exactly why I want him as our QB next year after taking T-Mac and having a great young group of offensive weapons who need to expedite their seasoning.

He says and does some really weird things, but even with how much they're laughing at him here, McCoy says how much he loves Jameis, because despite the weird stuff, his teammates love him and he's a pretty good leader (except for maybe the pregame hype speech apparently lol).

All that combined with his arm talent and no fear of attempting any pass, he's the perfect QB to help build up young WRs, TEs, and RBs like we have.

Let him get them better for a season or two and then go all in on a FA, trade, or trade up in the draft to get the right QB to add into all that talent for a real SB run.

I'm fine with losing 3-4 extra games for that season or two with him as our QB if it means our young offensive skill position guys have an expedited growth of their game because he's gonna sling that rock all over the place and at a high volume.

Edited December 5, 2024 by tukafan21

[kungfoodude]

10 hours ago, mav1234 said:

I love Winston as a backup on a bad team. He's fun to watch, win or lose.

I don't want him on a good team, though. The turnovers just are not worth it.

Well "luckily" we are one of the worst teams, so he would fit here.

[frankw]

8 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

This is exactly why I want him as our QB next year after taking T-Mac and having a great young group of offensive weapons who need to expedite their seasoning.

He says and does some really weird things, but even with how much they're laughing at him here, McCoy says how much he loves Jameis, because despite the weird stuff, his teammates love him and he's a pretty good leader (except for maybe the pregame hype speech apparently lol).

All that combined with his arm talent and no fear of attempting any pass, he's the perfect QB to help build up young WRs, TEs, and RBs like we have.

Let him get them better for a season or two and then go all in on a FA, trade, or trade up in the draft to get the right QB to add into all that talent for a real SB run.

I'm fine with losing 3-4 extra games for that season or two with him as our QB if it means our young offensive skill position guys have an expedited growth of their game because he's gonna sling that rock all over the place and at a high volume.

I would be fine with him as a veteran backup here.

[d-dave]

Jameis is a fun watch.  He'll make some insanely good plays, and then throw a couple pick sixes to even things out.  You never know which part of the ride you're on any given play.

But do I want to trade Bryce for Winston?  Nope.  I'm on board the "let Bryce play" train.  I want to see what the rest of the season looks like.

[MechaZain]

Not good enough to win now and too old/inconsistent to build a future around. Also think his gunslinging would be too chaotic to be an effective backup. 

[Gapanthersfan]

There is a difference between a winner and a champion. Dalton is a winner. Darnold is a winner. Neither are champions. 

A champion is never satisfied with just winning. It’s just a different way they’re wired. When the game is on the line and the ball is in their hands, it’s a wrap. 

IMHO, Winston has never given off that feeling. Watt, Greg, agent 89, Luke, Mahomes, Brees, Brady and to an extent Stafford. Those are champions. 

Winning shouldn’t be the goal. Dominating (the foe) is the goal. Dynasty. Lofty? Very. 

Is this Bryce? Hopefully, but we don’t know.

 

 

[tukafan21]

8 hours ago, frankw said:

I would be fine with him as a veteran backup here.

nah, he should be the starter.

We're not going to be contenders next year and we're not likely to find our QB of the future this offseason.

So next year becomes about one thing, building up our young players as quickly and as much as possible.  And of all the QB's we could potentially sign or trade for next year to be our starter, Jameis is likely the best candidate to do that for us.

Yes, his mistakes will cost us games, but that's all they will cost us, those INTs that make us lose a game won't hinder the development our WRs, TEs, and RBs get because of the 50 passes he'll throw in a game to all levels of the field.

[Basbear]

16 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

This is exactly why I want him as our QB next year after taking T-Mac and having a great young group of offensive weapons who need to expedite their seasoning.

He says and does some really weird things, but even with how much they're laughing at him here, McCoy says how much he loves Jameis, because despite the weird stuff, his teammates love him and he's a pretty good leader (except for maybe the pregame hype speech apparently lol).

All that combined with his arm talent and no fear of attempting any pass, he's the perfect QB to help build up young WRs, TEs, and RBs like we have.

Let him get them better for a season or two and then go all in on a FA, trade, or trade up in the draft to get the right QB to add into all that talent for a real SB run.

I'm fine with losing 3-4 extra games for that season or two with him as our QB if it means our young offensive skill position guys have an expedited growth of their game because he's gonna sling that rock all over the place and at a high volume.

 

I can overlook weirdo behavior, but not serious women trouble. I was against Watson too.

He does seem like that he's finally grown up and does seem like a good teammate. The talent that made him a #1 is still there, I mean who else has a 30 TD and 30 INT season??? Just one, only the greats can remain starters to throw 30 INTs.   

[tukafan21]

6 minutes ago, Basbear said:

 

I can overlook weirdo behavior, but not serious women trouble. I was against Watson too.

He does seem like that he's finally grown up and does seem like a good teammate. The talent that made him a #1 is still there, I mean who else has a 30 TD and 30 INT season??? Just one, only the greats can remain starters to throw 30 INTs.   

Yea I was against Watson too, but I honestly don't remember anything about Jameis abusing women, so maybe I'm just not familiar with that story.

That is something I'm against too, but at the same time, we're not signing him to be the face of the franchise for the next 10 years, it would be signing him for 1, maybe 2 years, and solely using him to help build up the rest of our players.  If there was ever a situation to look past some off field transgressions, it would be there, where you're not trying to make them a focal point of the franchise moving forward.

If there was someone else similar, I'd have no problem going that route either.

I just want a QB next year who is a gunslinger who is going to get our young weapons the targets they need to improve their game, whether it's Jameis or someone else, that's the type of QB I want next year.

Edited December 5, 2024 by tukafan21

[kungfoodude]

7 hours ago, Gapanthersfan said:

There is a difference between a winner and a champion. Dalton is a winner. Darnold is a winner. Neither are champions. 

A champion is never satisfied with just winning. It’s just a different way they’re wired. When the game is on the line and the ball is in their hands, it’s a wrap. 

IMHO, Winston has never given off that feeling. Watt, Greg, agent 89, Luke, Mahomes, Brees, Brady and to an extent Stafford. Those are champions. 

Winning shouldn’t be the goal. Dominating (the foe) is the goal. Dynasty. Lofty? Very. 

Is this Bryce? Hopefully, but we don’t know.

 

 

Dalton is 84-82-2 in his career. Darnold is 31-37 in his career. Jameis Winston is 36-49 in his career.

None of these guys are really "winners" per se. Dalton being the closest(5 seasons with above .500 records with just 2 each for the other two). 

Also, every QB that becomes a champion has to win first. And not all champions are winners. Nick Foles had 2 winning seasons in 11 years. Trent Dilfer had 4 winning seasons in 13 years. These are outliers, obviously but even Mahomes, Brady, the Manning's, etc. had to start by winning eventually and then becoming champions. 

Heck, Stafford who you mention has had only 6 winning seasons in a 16 year career.

[Basbear]

7 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Yea I was against Watson too, but I honestly don't remember anything about Jameis abusing women, so maybe I'm just not familiar with that story.

That is something I'm against too, but at the same time, we're not signing him to be the face of the franchise for the next 10 years, it would be signing him for 1, maybe 2 years, and solely using him to help build up the rest of our players.  If there was ever a situation to look past some off field transgressions, it would be there, where you're not trying to make them a focal point of the franchise moving forward.

If there was someone else similar, I'd have no problem going that route either.

I just want a QB next year who is a gunslinger who is going to get our young weapons the targets they need to improve their game, whether it's Jameis or someone else, that's the type of QB I want next year.

 

I get that and honestly we do not know about each player, BY could be a rapist for all we know. 

The Winston stuff is old but its the worse type and the most recent "known" was odd

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/sports/2016/12/15/tampa-bay-quarterback-jameis-winston-rape-accuser-settle-civil-lawsuit/15735954007/

 

https://www.wctv.tv/content/news/Report-Jameis-Winston-Uber-driver-reach-settlement-501360801.html

 

 

 

[tukafan21]

28 minutes ago, Basbear said:

 

I get that and honestly we do not know about each player, BY could be a rapist for all we know. 

The Winston stuff is old but its the worse type and the most recent "known" was odd

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/sports/2016/12/15/tampa-bay-quarterback-jameis-winston-rape-accuser-settle-civil-lawsuit/15735954007/

 

https://www.wctv.tv/content/news/Report-Jameis-Winston-Uber-driver-reach-settlement-501360801.html

 

 

 

Interesting, don't remember hearing about either of them, but they are pretty old at this point so maybe I had and just forgot over the years since then.

Maybe would need to look into it more, but I don't know, if it's not a player we're trying to build our future around and it's not something most people even remember these days, not sure if it's the type of thing that would make me want to not sign him for this type of situation.

If there was some strong evidence out there that he did something terrible, other than just settlements, maybe it would be different.  Like Tyreek, I'd never be okay with him on the Panthers because there is that audio clip out there of him arguing with his wife/GF and saying how she and their son should be afraid of him and what not.  

But again, first I'm seeing this, so don't know the details and only skimmed the articles.  As like you said, we don't know the history of all our players, in fact, I'd bet at least one player on our team has done some pretty awful stuff in the past (and I'd probably say that about every team these days, this league is filled with a bunch of questionable character people) and we just don't know it.

[Gapanthersfan]

20 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Dalton is 84-82-2 in his career. Darnold is 31-37 in his career. Jameis Winston is 36-49 in his career.

None of these guys are really "winners" per se. Dalton being the closest(5 seasons with above .500 records with just 2 each for the other two). 

Also, every QB that becomes a champion has to win first. And not all champions are winners. Nick Foles had 2 winning seasons in 11 years. Trent Dilfer had 4 winning seasons in 13 years. These are outliers, obviously but even Mahomes, Brady, the Manning's, etc. had to start by winning eventually and then becoming champions. 

Heck, Stafford who you mention has had only 6 winning seasons in a 16 year career.

I didn’t convey the point I was trying to make very well. 

I’m trying to get at a player’s makeup… it goes beyond win/loss records although record and player makeup are certainly intertwined. There have been players I consider champions on loser franchises. Case in point: Barry Sanders. 

If Barry ever had the chance to go to a Super Bowl, Barry Sanders would be hoisting a Lombardi at the end of a game. Barry was just geared that way. Barry was a champion at heart without the hardware… well, gold jacket but no trophy. 

I really want to say it better, but nothing has come easy for me today and my brain is tired.