Current Draft Position & Potential Prospects

[tukafan21]

52 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Why I think the Jags may not be picking in the top 5: 

They could run the table--but I do not know how you play these teams without 2-3 wins.  If LV wins, it hurts their chances--I think the split with Tennessee, and beat the Jets at home--

Regardless, who knows?  Bad teams are unpredictable. 

I see the first round of the draft going this way:

1.  NY Giants (Saints and Colts are winnable games on schedule-but the Giants will be underdogs in both; predicted finish is 2-15)

2. Patriots  (not winning another game--they have 4 to play; I am guessing 3-14 and they have a pretty weak SOS)

3.The Browns have 1 winnable game--@ Bengals, and the Cats will be favored.  I predict that Winston is going to Winston--final record---3-14.  SOS is weaker right now than Vegas

4. Raiders (Saints and Jags on schedule---A win would take Vegas out of the Ward/Sanders race.  I think they could win 1; probably finish 3-14

5. Panthers could surprise some folks--here is why:  They play Dallas at home and that is a possible win. They end the season at Tampa Bay--and then the last game of the season against the team that may have the division wrapped up---Atlanta.  If so, they will play their subs, but it seems Tampa won't go away. Atlanta and Tampa Bay are currently 6-6, but the Falcons will probably lose to Minnesota and Washington, ending 9-8.  Tampa has an easier schedule down the stretch, with probable wins against the Raiders, Cowboys, Panthers, and Saints.  I think they win 3 or 4 of these, and that would prevent Atlanta from resting starters. Predicted finish:  4-13 because I think the Panthers will win one because they are improving, but Dallas is their best hope for a win (at home).  It is possible that they do not win a game, but we are playing too well not to get a W in five chances.

6. NY Jets (Jax only winnable game left, but with Rogers, they could upset someone.  probable 4-13)

7. Titans have 3-4 winnable games left on the schedule; expect 2 wins)  probably finish 5-12 or so.

8. Jags have nothing but winnable games left--Titans x 2, Jets, Colts, and Raiders-Jax could run the table, but they won't.  With Mac Jones, they could actually get a boost.    Expect them to finish 5-12.

TEAMS with 4 WINS

• Bengals the are the first 4-win team but they have 3 winnable games--they will finish 6-11 by winning 2 of 3 vs. Cleveland, Dallas, and Tennessee.
• The Saints (4 wins) have the Giants and Raiders left.  They win at least 5, probably finish 6-11
• The Bears have 4 wins and with SF, Minn, Seattle, Green Bay, and Detroit left, they may be headed for an 11-game losing streak to end the season.  Yikes.  Predicted finish, 4-13

THE DRAMA: 

1. NY Giants--Ward, QB Miami

2. New England (TRADE with LV Raiders)--Expect the phone to be ringing with Vegas on the line and they will throw a ton at the lucky Pats, making it impossible for them to say "no".  The Pats have needs at Edge, WR, OL, and CB--so they will want picks. However, if they trade, they probably lose Travis Hunter, so the price will be steep, and the Raiders will pay it to bring in a brash star to be the QB of the future.

3.  Cleveland --With both QBs off the board, the Browns take the best player in the draft, Travis Hunter, CB/WR.

4.  New England (from Raiders)--Hard to say, but they will be focused on Edge, CB, WR, and maybe OL.  I am guessing they take the position that will be gone by round 2.  A. Carter, DE/Edge

5.  Carolina:  With the top WR in the draft on the board, along with Graham, the top DT, I do not see an edge or WR worth this pick.  I think they trade or they take Graham DT or McMillan WR.  We need a #1 WR, and we are getting DT Brown back, so the choice is a toss up.  If it were me, I would 1) trade back 5-10 spots and get both Edge and WR, 2) Graham, DT (can you imagine how awesome our front would be with Graham and Brown?) 3) McMillan WR.   My pick is Graham, DT, Michigan.  I think an edge like Boston College's Donovan Ezeirukau (80 tackles, 17 sacks) or a WR I really like--Elic Ayomanor from Stanford.   My sleeper pick is Mike Green (edge, Marshall).  Since Ayomanor is not a #1, I would take Exeirukau (BC Edge) 

That is how I see it now--but we should be picking around #5, and we know 3 players that are going off the board 1-3--Hunter, Ward, and Sanders. 

The Patriots beating the Bills at home in week 18 is way more realistic than you might think on the surface, which is why us losing out is so big for our draft status.  

As to why the Patriots might beat the Bills.......

-  If KC wins out through Week 17 (LAC, @CLE, HOU, @PIT), which is very possible, should win all going into Pittsburgh game

-  The Steelers lose 2 games, and their next 3 games after the Browns at home this week are at @PHI, @BAL, KC

-  The Bills lose only 1 game before Week 18, and they play in Detroit next week with Detroit coming off a Thursday game and added rest, with their other games being @LA, NE, NYJ, all games they should win.

Then KC will have the 1 seed locked up and Buffalo will have the 2 seed locked up as well, nobody could catch either of them in Week 18 no matter what else happens until then.

That will be a NE team with a bunch of coaches and players playing for their jobs for next season or at worst, auditioning for new ones against a team likely of all the Bills backups.  I think they would actually win that game and entirely shake up the top of the draft order.

My hope is the above very real possible scenario happens, we lose out, as well as the following very possible outcomes.....

Jags and Titans split and then Jags then lose out (which would give the Raiders and Jets wins), Raiders lose out besides Jags game, the Browns beat the Dolphins at home in the cold in week 17 (or another surprise upset win), and the Giants lose out

If that happens the draft is Giants, Panthers, Jags, Raiders... rest doesn't matter

We swap picks with the Raiders to pick up more picks.

Draft goes... Ward, Shedeur, Hunter, and we get to take T-Mac while adding whatever picks we are able to squeeze out of the Raiders.

Or if Deion were to make it known we better not draft Hunter, I'd rather the Jags win an extra game so we're really only moving back 1 pick, that way there is no risk of Deion doing that to the Jags too and them taking T-Mac themselves, haha.

Dream scenario that needs a lot to play out, but honestly, not one thing in all of that is really all that crazy.  The toughest outcomes to get are probably the Chiefs winning in Pittsburgh and the Browns beating the Dolphins in Cleveland, neither of which are far fetched at all, in fact, all the other games the team we'd need to win would likely be the favorites.  

Lions with extra rest beating the Bills in Detroit would be the key domino in the whole thing though, as if Buffalo keeps winning, they'll still have a shot at the 1 seed in week 18 and the Patriots likely lose out and get the #2 pick and they get to trade with the Raiders.

Edited December 5 by tukafan21

[tukafan21]

14 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

The Patriots beating the Bills at home in week 18 is way more realistic than you might think on the surface, which is why us losing out is so big for our draft status.  

As to why the Patriots might beat the Bills.......

-  If KC wins out through Week 17 (LAC, @CLE, HOU, @PIT), which is very possible, should win all going into Pittsburgh game

-  The Steelers lose 2 games, and their next 3 games after the Browns at home this week are at @PHI, @BAL, KC

-  The Bills lose only 1 game before Week 18, and they play in Detroit next week with Detroit coming off a Thursday game and added rest, with their other games being @LA, NE, NYJ, all games they should win.

Then KC will have the 1 seed locked up and Buffalo will have the 2 seed locked up as well, nobody could catch either of them in Week 18 no matter what else happens until then.

That will be a NE team with a bunch of coaches and players playing for their jobs for next season or at worst, auditioning for new ones against a team likely of all the Bills backups.  I think they would actually win that game and entirely shake up the top of the draft order.

My hope is the above very real possible scenario happens, we lose out, as well as the following very possible outcomes.....

Jags and Titans split and then Jags then lose out (which would give the Raiders and Jets wins), Raiders lose out besides Jags game, the Browns beat the Dolphins at home in the cold in week 17 (or another surprise upset win), and the Giants lose out

If that happens the draft is Giants, Panthers, Jags, Raiders... rest doesn't matter

We swap picks with the Raiders to pick up more picks.

Draft goes... Ward, Shedeur, Hunter, and we get to take T-Mac while adding whatever picks we are able to squeeze out of the Raiders.

Or if Deion were to make it known we better not draft Hunter, I'd rather the Jags win an extra game so we're really only moving back 1 pick, that way there is no risk of Deion doing that to the Jags too and them taking T-Mac themselves, haha.

Dream scenario that needs a lot to play out, but honestly, not one thing in all of that is really all that crazy.  The toughest outcomes to get are probably the Chiefs winning in Pittsburgh and the Browns beating the Dolphins in Cleveland, neither of which are far fetched at all, in fact, all the other games the team we'd need to win would likely be the favorites.  

Lions with extra rest beating the Bills in Detroit would be the key domino in the whole thing though, as if Buffalo keeps winning, they'll still have a shot at the 1 seed in week 18 and the Patriots likely lose out and get the #2 pick and they get to trade with the Raiders.

Also in all of this, the real key game is the Browns beating the Dolphins or getting another unexpected upset.

As the Titans and Jets are more than likely to win at least 1 more game, so as long as the Browns get one more win, winning one more ourselves keeps us 5th at worst, we'd move up to 4th if the Jags are able to win 2 games with the Top 3 being some order of Giants, Raiders, Patriots.

Edited December 5 by tukafan21

[*FreeFua*]

It still wouldn’t surprise me to see us beat Dallas and even Arizona at home 

I think we end up picking somewhere in the 7-11 range which is fine 

Luther Burden, Isaiah Bond, Emeka Egbuka

The Dolphins took Waddle at 6 the year after they drafted Tua. We desperately need our YAC/speed/route running WR now

 

[MHS831]

8 hours ago, Bostonheelfish said:

Love Graham, but you have to continue to build around Bryce if the plan is going to work. Spent a lot in free agency on OL this year to give him time. Added a promising young TE, and WRs with potential. Also, may have created a dynamic running back core. Finish the job and get T-Mac if he is there. Young will flourish and the team will make sense and we’ll have a path for the future. 

I cannot disagree with this---free agency does not have a lot of #1 WRs and those who will pimp themselves come with a huge price tag.  I also think that bringing in another TE who can make plays is something people might be overlooking--but not in rounds 1 or 2. 

To your point:  If you go back to camp, we gave up on TMJ, traded Mingo, lost AT to an injury, lost Johnson due to a permanent head injury (joke)--and we were left with an undrafted rookie, a raw rookie first rounder, and a special team player who has overachieved.   We have 3 options--sign a high-priced #1 WR (and not many will covet Carolina); try our best to convert XL to that role and draft a Z WR, or draft either Hunter or McMillan to be the #1 WR, and I am not sure Hunter should be on offense. McMillan is a great red zone WR and runs the complete route tree with precision.  He will be a good one. McMillan, XL, AT, Coker and maybe a lower-tier free agent would be impressive, considering only 1 of your WRs is not on a rookie contract-you could argue that McMillan would be effective day 1, when an edge might take a year--spend your money on the edge or DT, not WR.  I see that logic. (Burden fans:  I like him too, and he can probably do more as a WR than McMillan--sweeps, screens--he can do it all, but I wonder if he is a true #1 or best suited for a slot role?  I wish I knew more about him--but if we trade back and grab him, I see the value--he might complement Young more than McMillan--don't know.)

A DT like Graham would make our run defense ugly-good, and his pass rushing would make our edge players better.  However, there are players later in the draft who would not be as big a drop off.  I am not high on the edge players early (Carter is boom or bust to me), but I think round 2 has some players who will be good--but maybe not immediately.

Concerning edge:  If you wait until round 2, the pick we got from the Rams is about 50.  According to Tankathon's big board, that is when you grab your edge--I do not see much difference here between the first rounders and second rounder in terms of production.  To me, at edge you need a kid with a nonstop motor, and these guys are high motor players with productivity to match: 

Edited December 5 by MHS831

[MHS831]

11 hours ago, trucpfan said:

Yea I see them winning one or two games if you watched Mac J when he came in last week, he was like 75% comp rate he played a solid game I’d expect him to play his heart out you never know when you’re getting another chance and this is his chance to shine and I personally hope he plays like a all pro any game to close out the season.

I said the same thing earlier--imagine a rookie going to NE to follow Brady with BB as the head coach--spoiled fans, demanding coach, Brady's long shadow--worst conditions ever for a rookie QB.  He is good enough to start in the right situation.

[MHS831]

8 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

The Patriots beating the Bills at home in week 18 is way more realistic than you might think on the surface, which is why us losing out is so big for our draft status.  

As to why the Patriots might beat the Bills.......

-  If KC wins out through Week 17 (LAC, @CLE, HOU, @PIT), which is very possible, should win all going into Pittsburgh game

-  The Steelers lose 2 games, and their next 3 games after the Browns at home this week are at @PHI, @BAL, KC

-  The Bills lose only 1 game before Week 18, and they play in Detroit next week with Detroit coming off a Thursday game and added rest, with their other games being @LA, NE, NYJ, all games they should win.

Then KC will have the 1 seed locked up and Buffalo will have the 2 seed locked up as well, nobody could catch either of them in Week 18 no matter what else happens until then.

That will be a NE team with a bunch of coaches and players playing for their jobs for next season or at worst, auditioning for new ones against a team likely of all the Bills backups.  I think they would actually win that game and entirely shake up the top of the draft order.

My hope is the above very real possible scenario happens, we lose out, as well as the following very possible outcomes.....

Jags and Titans split and then Jags then lose out (which would give the Raiders and Jets wins), Raiders lose out besides Jags game, the Browns beat the Dolphins at home in the cold in week 17 (or another surprise upset win), and the Giants lose out

If that happens the draft is Giants, Panthers, Jags, Raiders... rest doesn't matter

We swap picks with the Raiders to pick up more picks.

Draft goes... Ward, Shedeur, Hunter, and we get to take T-Mac while adding whatever picks we are able to squeeze out of the Raiders.

Or if Deion were to make it known we better not draft Hunter, I'd rather the Jags win an extra game so we're really only moving back 1 pick, that way there is no risk of Deion doing that to the Jags too and them taking T-Mac themselves, haha.

Dream scenario that needs a lot to play out, but honestly, not one thing in all of that is really all that crazy.  The toughest outcomes to get are probably the Chiefs winning in Pittsburgh and the Browns beating the Dolphins in Cleveland, neither of which are far fetched at all, in fact, all the other games the team we'd need to win would likely be the favorites.  

Lions with extra rest beating the Bills in Detroit would be the key domino in the whole thing though, as if Buffalo keeps winning, they'll still have a shot at the 1 seed in week 18 and the Patriots likely lose out and get the #2 pick and they get to trade with the Raiders.

You have done some homework!! Yep--no way Buffalo puts their starters on the field week 18--good point.  As much as I hate to say it now, I do not see the Panthers winning another game--but they could upset Dallas here if they play the way they have been

[Mistuh Jones]

after watching some film... OH MY SWEET JEEBUS can you imagine Graham with D Brown?!? 

[Bear Hands]

1 hour ago, *FreeFua* said:

It still wouldn’t surprise me to see us beat Dallas and even Arizona at home 

I think we end up picking somewhere in the 7-11 range which is fine 

Luther Burden, Isaiah Bond, Emeka Egbuka

The Dolphins took Waddle at 6 the year after they drafted Tua. We desperately need our YAC/speed/route running WR now

 

If we somehow find ourselves in position to draft Ricky White III, he's a WR that could fill that hole in R2-3.  He's a dude I like a lot for us.

[SurvivalSloth]

Last season was all about building the offense. Now it's time to build up the defense. If we're in the top 5, I'd be okay with Graham to pair with Derrick Brown or Johnson to pair with Jaycee. Just seems smart to make a strength even stronger. 

[Ricky Prickles]

11 hours ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

He doesn't have the tools. People fell for the hype in college. 

 

He has the looks not the game.

He has the tools from what I saw and I saw him a couple times very up close. Height, scramble ability, strong accurate arm and a tough guy. One of his issues is the absolute poo team around him. The Jags seem to allow some good players around him to leave. They blew their wad with him financially and now either can't or won't spend much more. He could potentially be a monster on a better team. 

Nice guy as well. Extremely mannerly even to a foe who stands on the opposite sidelines of him. He is a good guy I would love to see succeed and it says a lot coming from me as I was brought up a rival to his college and we all saw him as the enemy but what a hell of a good dude besides his poor choice in university. He has not lived up to expectations at all but I don't feel like it is a lack of tools. From what I could see first hand, he has all the tools including the mental but a lack of talent around him I think does hurt and there's just something more I can't place holding him back. He had the one solid year and then struggled since and I'm not all the way sure but his tools look amazing on the field.

[CamWhoaaCam]

4 minutes ago, Ricky Prickles said:

He has the tools from what I saw and I saw him a couple times very up close. Height, scramble ability, strong accurate arm and a tough guy. One of his issues is the absolute poo team around him. The Jags seem to allow some good players around him to leave. They blew their wad with him financially and now either can't or won't spend much more. He could potentially be a monster on a better team. 

Nice guy as well. Extremely mannerly even to a foe who stands on the opposite sidelines of him. He is a good guy I would love to see succeed and it says a lot coming from me as I was brought up a rival to his college and we all saw him as the enemy but what a hell of a good dude besides his poor choice in university. He has not lived up to expectations at all but I don't feel like it is a lack of tools. From what I could see first hand, he has all the tools including the mental but a lack of talent around him I think does hurt and there's just something more I can't place holding him back. He had the one solid year and then struggled since and I'm not all the way sure but his tools look amazing on the field.

No he just isn't good. The team literally made the playoffs a few years ago. He has declined since. The tools you say he has is "the look". Sure he looks like he's a franchise QB, but when he gets on the field he's just not that guy.

 

Nice kid, well mannered doesn't mean anything. Either you are or you aren't that guy. He's not.

[Ricky Prickles]

40 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

No he just isn't good. The team literally made the playoffs a few years ago. He has declined since. The tools you say he has is "the look". Sure he looks like he's a franchise QB, but when he gets on the field he's just not that guy.

 

Nice kid, well mannered doesn't mean anything. Either you are or you aren't that guy. He's not.

No he has the tools, you are wrong sorry. 

And I don't see where I said being a nice guy or well mannered transfers to success, I simply stated what I saw out of him in some up close personal interactions on the sidelines after a couple games.

I can't explain what's going on with him but he had it for a season and hasn't recaptured it. The team around him is junk and he has not made them better. A good QB can still perform with crap but right now he isn't playing like a good QB. 

The guy has more than "the look". The look is nothing more than height. He has the tools and once showed them quite well on the field. They are there somewhere, whether he finds them again who knows but the guy has all the talent in the world.

If you want to talk about someone fooling us in college, check out Shedeur. Great in college but won't transfer to the NFL. Will make a fine backup one day but that's about it. Only difference between Shedeur and Lawrence is Shedeur wasn't good enough to lead his team to a national championship in college. 

 

[CarolinaLivin]

15 minutes ago, Ricky Prickles said:

No he has the tools, you are wrong sorry. 

And I don't see where I said being a nice guy or well mannered transfers to success, I simply stated what I saw out of him in some up close personal interactions on the sidelines after a couple games.

I can't explain what's going on with him but he had it for a season and hasn't recaptured it. The team around him is junk and he has not made them better. A good QB can still perform with crap but right now he isn't playing like a good QB. 

The guy has more than "the look". The look is nothing more than height. He has the tools and once showed them quite well on the field. They are there somewhere, whether he finds them again who knows but the guy has all the talent in the world.

If you want to talk about someone fooling us in college, check out Shedeur. Great in college but won't transfer to the NFL. Will make a fine backup one day but that's about it. Only difference between Shedeur and Lawrence is Shedeur wasn't good enough to lead his team to a national championship in college. 

 

Having the tools and implementing (i don't think implementing is the right word but ill go with it) them are two different things. Daniel Jones has the makeup/tools of a franchise QB, but he can't put it together. Trevor Lawrence has the tools. The tools is what got him a second contract. Not saying that paying him was right or wrong but they paid him based off his potential. Regardless, it is a what have you done league. He will get one more HC and if he can't figure it out at that point, then the fingers will be pointed at him. Can only fire your staff so many times before the franchise stops believing in you.

Edited December 5 by CarolinaLivin

[CamWhoaaCam]

28 minutes ago, Ricky Prickles said:

No he has the tools, you are wrong sorry. 

And I don't see where I said being a nice guy or well mannered transfers to success, I simply stated what I saw out of him in some up close personal interactions on the sidelines after a couple games.

I can't explain what's going on with him but he had it for a season and hasn't recaptured it. The team around him is junk and he has not made them better. A good QB can still perform with crap but right now he isn't playing like a good QB. 

The guy has more than "the look". The look is nothing more than height. He has the tools and once showed them quite well on the field. They are there somewhere, whether he finds them again who knows but the guy has all the talent in the world.

If you want to talk about someone fooling us in college, check out Shedeur. Great in college but won't transfer to the NFL. Will make a fine backup one day but that's about it. Only difference between Shedeur and Lawrence is Shedeur wasn't good enough to lead his team to a national championship in college. 

 

Lol triggered 

 

How did saying Lawrence is not a good QB turn into Shedeur freaking Sanders smh

 

I expected better from you Mr. Prickles