What Are Your Top Offseason Targets Now That Bryce Young Is Showing Promise?

[SmokinwithWilly]

1 minute ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

What exactly are you trying to debate me on sir?

 

I said he is the #1 prospect in the draft and you somehow made this into something bigger than what I said. I'm just confused. You guys be jumping into other people conversation and you don't even know what you're debating me about. 

 

Willy been smoking again!

What we've been saying is that he may be the #1 prospect but being the top prospect doesn't necessarily mean he's the best fit.  You've been hammering that he's going to be the Heisman winner, but as it turns out, that's not really a mark of future NFL success in the past couple of decades. You've also been going on about stats and those don't really matter as much as people think because of the talent disparity between colleges. NFL teams are much closer talent wise than colleges so you really have to start looking at the traits and skills vs numbers.  

Just because he's the #1 prospect doesn't mean he's going to be great in the NFL. Is he the best WR in the draft? Debatable. Best DB? Also debatable.  We're looking at is he the best player at whichever position he decides to play and how is that going to translate to the NFL game? Is he going to fit in with whatever the coach or team is trying to do? Are there potential attitude problems? Are there issues with learning the playbook? Are there issues with any number of different things that goes into examining these players? These are the same questions you ask when you look at any potential prospect, 1 or 100. 

Tuka gave a very well thought out reason why he'd take TMac over Hunter at WR. WR on the outside vs WR in the slot. Arguments can be made for the success and drawbacks of both in different systems. The Giants already have Nabors. Would pairing him with Hunter or Tmac make more sense? There's going to be a new coach in NY. What type of offense is he going to run? Are they going to be looking for a QB in the draft or going FA? Would it make more sense to trade out of that spot and grab picks if another team wants to move up? 

He's also said “They said I couldn’t do it in college,” Hunter said. “I ended up doing it in college. So a lot of people telling me I can’t do it in the NFL, but I’m gonna still do it in the NFL.” That could be a potential problem if he doesn't want to listen to his coaches if they tell him no. 

You're talking he's the #1 college prospect. He is likely by a majority of scouts and media. What we're talking about is is he the #1 fit at WR or DB at the NFL level? Those are 2 very different things and are very debatable. 

 

[CamWhoaaCam]

11 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

What we've been saying is that he may be the #1 prospect but being the top prospect doesn't necessarily mean he's the best fit.  You've been hammering that he's going to be the Heisman winner, but as it turns out, that's not really a mark of future NFL success in the past couple of decades. You've also been going on about stats and those don't really matter as much as people think because of the talent disparity between colleges. NFL teams are much closer talent wise than colleges so you really have to start looking at the traits and skills vs numbers.  

Just because he's the #1 prospect doesn't mean he's going to be great in the NFL. Is he the best WR in the draft? Debatable. Best DB? Also debatable.  We're looking at is he the best player at whichever position he decides to play and how is that going to translate to the NFL game? Is he going to fit in with whatever the coach or team is trying to do? Are there potential attitude problems? Are there issues with learning the playbook? Are there issues with any number of different things that goes into examining these players? These are the same questions you ask when you look at any potential prospect, 1 or 100. 

Tuka gave a very well thought out reason why he'd take TMac over Hunter at WR. WR on the outside vs WR in the slot. Arguments can be made for the success and drawbacks of both in different systems. The Giants already have Nabors. Would pairing him with Hunter or Tmac make more sense? There's going to be a new coach in NY. What type of offense is he going to run? Are they going to be looking for a QB in the draft or going FA? Would it make more sense to trade out of that spot and grab picks if another team wants to move up? 

He's also said “They said I couldn’t do it in college,” Hunter said. “I ended up doing it in college. So a lot of people telling me I can’t do it in the NFL, but I’m gonna still do it in the NFL.” That could be a potential problem if he doesn't want to listen to his coaches if they tell him no. 

You're talking he's the #1 college prospect. He is likely by a majority of scouts and media. What we're talking about is is he the #1 fit at WR or DB at the NFL level? Those are 2 very different things and are very debatable. 

 

I have him as the best DB and best defensive player in the draft. Yall saying im bringing up stats and I haven't mentioned anything about his numbers other than he's top 5 in WR stats which is a fact.

 

Bro I been saying draft Tmac. Tuka explaining his reasons has nothing to do with me because I also want Tmac. I haven't suggested Hunter because he most likely won't be on the board when we pick.

[tukafan21]

1 hour ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

What exactly are you trying to debate me on sir?

 

I said he is the #1 prospect in the draft and you somehow made this into something bigger than what I said. I'm just confused. You guys be jumping into other people conversation and you don't even know what you're debating me about. 

 

Willy been smoking again!

First, I disagree that he's the #1 prospect, I've said that numerous times, he plays 2 positions and he's not the best prospect at either of them.

Second, you keep pointing to what he's doing in college about playing both ways as to a reason he's the #1 prospect, which again, as it's been pointed out to you numerous times, has ZERO bearing on his NFL prospects because he won't be a 2 way player.

If someone isn't the best player at either position they play, why in the world should they be the #1 prospect in the draft?

He's not a better CB than Johnson and he's not a better WR than T-Mac, so if you can't use his two way play as an argument (as he won't do that in the NFL), then why in the world should he be the #1 prospect in the draft?

Do you not see why the math ain't mathing?

And you keep saying all the experts rank him as #1, which just frankly isn't true, I don't keep notes of all the expert rankings, but a large number of them do NOT have him as the #1 prospect, for all the reason's I've stated.  

He's a generational collegiate talent, he's an elite NFL prospect, but he's not the #1 prospect at either position he plays.

All 3 of those things in this previous sentence can be true, but you seem to think someone disagreeing with the last of the 3 is ridiculous because of the first two points.  The fact that you can't separate those things and see them objectively, is why your opinions are invalid.

You're the same person who screamed about Bryce being an elite prospect and drafting him would make us SB contenders last year, sorry if I'm not going to give you the benefit of doubt when it comes to your talent evaluations, especially when you keep pointing to his 2 way play in college when talking about wanting to draft him and ranking him #1 on your board.

[tukafan21]

1 hour ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

I literally said he's the best DB in the draft. I literally said I don't think he will play both ways.

 

It's you who is pushing this 2 way agenda and making it seem like it's me who's pushing it.

 

 

You've brought up his 2 way play and doing things no college player has ever done, in every single thread about the draft.

Don't try to say it's me who is pushing that agenda, that's just laughable.

And he's not the best DB in the draft, he's the 2nd best behind Johnson, and that's not a knock on Hunter, saying he's not the best DB isn't saying he is a garbage player, he's still an elite prospect, just not as elite as others.

 

[CamWhoaaCam]

5 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

First, I disagree that he's the #1 prospect, I've said that numerous times, he plays 2 positions and he's not the best prospect at either of them.

Second, you keep pointing to what he's doing in college about playing both ways as to a reason he's the #1 prospect, which again, as it's been pointed out to you numerous times, has ZERO bearing on his NFL prospects because he won't be a 2 way player.

If someone isn't the best player at either position they play, why in the world should they be the #1 prospect in the draft?

He's not a better CB than Johnson and he's not a better WR than T-Mac, so if you can't use his two way play as an argument (as he won't do that in the NFL), then why in the world should he be the #1 prospect in the draft?

Do you not see why the math ain't mathing?

And you keep saying all the experts rank him as #1, which just frankly isn't true, I don't keep notes of all the expert rankings, but a large number of them do NOT have him as the #1 prospect, for all the reason's I've stated.  

He's a generational collegiate talent, he's an elite NFL prospect, but he's not the #1 prospect at either position he plays.

All 3 of those things in this previous sentence can be true, but you seem to think someone disagreeing with the last of the 3 is ridiculous because of the first two points.  The fact that you can't separate those things and see them objectively, is why your opinions are invalid.

You're the same person who screamed about Bryce being an elite prospect and drafting him would make us SB contenders last year, sorry if I'm not going to give you the benefit of doubt when it comes to your talent evaluations, especially when you keep pointing to his 2 way play in college when talking about wanting to draft him and ranking him #1 on your board.

My man carefully read the comments in this thread.

 

You have been the only one talking about him playing both ways. I said he's elite at both positions. I never said he should be the #1 pick because he plays both ways!

 

You do this every time we discuss Hunter bro. It's you who think he shouldn't be #1 because he plays both ways not me lol

 

I said Hunter is the best defensive player in the draft and the best DB. I also said if we draft him it would be to play DB full time. Now that I have mentioned this and made it clear you can no longer blame me for him playing both positions. That's your issue not mine.

[trucpfan]

21 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

That's a hard call to make but NE has lacked a true WR1 for so long. Tackle is such a tempting spot, but as we've seen they really take a couple years to get to NFL speed unless you get a Sewell or Slater, and then you're close to the end of that rookie QB contract. 

It’s really going to be very tempting pick because when you’re drafting a LT that high you’d expect him to be a Sewell or Slater type and if you can get that you might be able to substitute a top wr production. But it’s really hard to replicate good protection might take using a TE or RB to chip for help leaving one less playmaker available. I think it’s going to be a close call it’s really about draft positioning and how they project out in the future. I can see where it’s a toss up.

21 hours ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Why would they pass on a better prospect?

 

Usually when you are drafting top 5 you go for best prospect.

 

I haven't seen any tackles rated higher than Tmac so far.

Best prospect that helps your team long term. There also other factors to consider like if you drafted a WR early the year before and your Oline struggles you might not go WR again. (NE) Polk might be able to develop into the playmaker they expect after a season of adjusting and growing. You don’t just draft the best prospect you draft according to need and talent level, Hunter is definitely that dude right now but I’ve seen a lot of what does he focus on in the league? He’s good at both but not great at either I’m a fan but I’m not sure who’s a better long term prospect just yet. 

21 hours ago, Davidson Deac II said:

I think our wide receiver group is ok for now.  I think the offense is ok for now for the most part.  What we need is defensive front 7 and maybe a safety.  Pick the BPA that helps the defensive front 7 at the top spot, and focus mostly on defense.  That being said, if a solid oline player, is available in the 3rd or 4th round and they take him, I won't be 

I agree with you on that our WR group is ok, but what took Burrow from ok to elite adding Chase…What took Tua from average to top seven when healthy adding Tyrek with Waddle and very good coaching I must say. What took Jalen from ok to elite ending up in the big game? Adding a playmaker like AJ Brown with D Smith. If we really want to unlock Bryce we'll add a big time playmaker like TMAC.
 

I’m on build the defense up I understand we need to focus on the d because being last in the league in rush D is pathetic. We have had a lot of injuries overall but even with Brown playing early in the season we got gashed big time. I’m on the draft Graham train if possible by trading back (based off how we finish of course) but yea adding a top notch DT that can do both run stuff and pass rush is a recipe for getting our d back on track. I want to unlock Bryce but I understand what we could be with a dominate Dline.
 

Free agency will be huge for us this year being that we’re flirting with being a good team lately.

[CamWhoaaCam]

5 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

You've brought up his 2 way play and doing things no college player has ever done, in every single thread about the draft.

Don't try to say it's me who is pushing that agenda, that's just laughable.

And he's not the best DB in the draft, he's the 2nd best behind Johnson, and that's not a knock on Hunter, saying he's not the best DB isn't saying he is a garbage player, he's still an elite prospect, just not as elite as others.

 

Read this thread bro. You have been talking about him playing both ways the entire conversation. It's kind of sad you're unaware of your own actions.

 

Hunter is the best DB in the draft and best defensive player. That's why I would draft him as the #1 pick. I mentioned nothing about Hunter playing WR. I said he's a top 3 WR and has the stats to back it up. That's all I said.

 

But keep lying on my name if it makes you feel good.

[tukafan21]

6 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

My man carefully read the comments in this thread.

 

You have been the only one talking about him playing both ways. I said he's elite at both positions. I never said he should be the #1 pick because he plays both ways!

 

You do this every time we discuss Hunter bro. It's you who think he shouldn't be #1 because he plays both ways not me lol

 

I said Hunter is the best defensive player in the draft and the best DB. I also said if we draft him it would be to play DB full time. Now that I have mentioned this and made it clear you can no longer blame me for him playing both positions. That's your issue not mine.

Right here you are LITERALLY saying he should be the top prospect because he is the best player in college football.

He is LITERALLY not the best player in college football on either side of the ball, the ONLY reason he can be considered the best player in college football is LITERALLY because he plays both sides at a high level.

He's not the best DB, he's not the best WR, he will NOT win the post season awards for best player at either position, he won't win the Bednarik as the nation's top defensive player.  

If you can't see how consistently calling him the best player in college football and using that as a reason for how you rank him, is explicitly using his 2 way play to justify your ranking of him, then that is a YOU problem.

[SmokinwithWilly]

20 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

I have him as the best DB and best defensive player in the draft. Yall saying im bringing up stats and I haven't mentioned anything about his numbers other than he's top 5 in WR stats which is a fact.

 

Bro I been saying draft Tmac. Tuka explaining his reasons has nothing to do with me because I also want Tmac. I haven't suggested Hunter because he most likely won't be on the board when we pick.

So if Hunter and Tmac are both sitting there, who are you taking? 

[CamWhoaaCam]

7 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Right here you are LITERALLY saying he should be the top prospect because he is the best player in college football.

He is LITERALLY not the best player in college football on either side of the ball, the ONLY reason he can be considered the best player in college football is LITERALLY because he plays both sides at a high level.

He's not the best DB, he's not the best WR, he will NOT win the post season awards for best player at either position, he won't win the Bednarik as the nation's top defensive player.  

If you can't see how consistently calling him the best player in college football and using that as a reason for how you rank him, is explicitly using his 2 way play to justify your ranking of him, then that is a YOU problem.

WTF!

 

Dude you just said I said he should be the #1 prospect because he plays both sides. That post did not say that lol.

 

You are reaching bro. You can't accept responsibility for what you have said. Instead you rather blame me for something you said.

 

I literally told you over and over he's the best defensive player in football imo. That's why I would take him #1 overall. Do you understand me now?

[CamWhoaaCam]

9 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

So if Hunter and Tmac are both sitting there, who are you taking? 

Hunter

 

If I have him as the #1 overall prospect why would I not take him if he's available?

 

But this is hypothetical because there is a 0% chance he is on the board when we pick. So with that I have been screaming Tmac for the past month. 

[tukafan21]

15 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Hunter

 

If I have him as the #1 overall prospect why would I not take him if he's available?

 

But this is hypothetical because there is a 0% chance he is on the board when we pick. So with that I have been screaming Tmac for the past month. 

The fact that you put any CB as the #1 overall prospect is just laughable

That you compound the issue by not even putting the best CB in the draft in that spot just makes it worse.  

You do realize that Hunter literally isn't even a finalist for the Thorpe award that is given to the best DB in the nation, right?

I would bet every dollar I have that Johnson will have a better career than Hunter and that T-Mac will end up better than both of them.

Edited Tuesday at 11:52 PM by tukafan21

[Davidson Deac II]

38 minutes ago, trucpfan said:

 I agree with you on that our WR group is ok, but what took Burrow from ok to elite adding Chase…What took Tua from average to top seven when healthy adding Tyrek with Waddle and very good coaching I must say. What took Jalen from ok to elite ending up in the big game? Adding a playmaker like AJ Brown with D Smith. If we really want to unlock Bryce we'll add a big time playmaker like TMAC.
 

I’m on build the defense up I understand we need to focus on the d because being last in the league in rush D is pathetic. We have had a lot of injuries overall but even with Brown playing early in the season we got gashed big time. I’m on the draft Graham train if possible by trading back (based off how we finish of course) but yea adding a top notch DT that can do both run stuff and pass rush is a recipe for getting our d back on track. I want to unlock Bryce but I understand what we could be with a dominate Dline.
 

Free agency will be huge for us this year being that we’re flirting with being a good team lately.

I agree, getting a top receiver like Chase would make Bryce look a lot better.  But I am not sure the team would be better.  Can't help but wonder if the Bengals wish they had spent less money and draft picks on the offense and more on defense (although in fairness, they have spent picks/money on the defense, just hasn't worked out yet)

Edited Tuesday at 11:54 PM by Davidson Deac II

[SmokinwithWilly]

 

1 minute ago, tukafan21 said:

The fact that you put any CB as the #1 overall prospect is just laughable

That you compound the issue by not even putting the best CB in the draft in that spot just makes it worse.  

You do realize that Hunter literally isn't even a finalist for the Thorpe award that is given to the best DB in the nation, right?

I would bet every dollar I have that Johnson will have a better career than Hunter and that T-Mac will end up better than both of them.

I was just getting ready to bring up the Thorpe award.