What Are Your Top Offseason Targets Now That Bryce Young Is Showing Promise?

[SmokinwithWilly]

4 hours ago, KaijuGato said:

so who do you see winning the award if you are so adamant that Hunter is not winning it? 

He didn't say he won't win it. He said he will win it because of his 2 way play. Once he goes to the NFL, his days of 2 way play are over with. At that point, the reason why he won the heisman will become irrelevant because he won't play both ways on the NFL field. 

3 hours ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

He doesn't care who wins it tbh

You need a hug. It's clear you like shading Hunter. Everytime his name is brought up you go in attack mode as to why he is not the best player in the draft.

 

Like I said I want Tmac just as much as you, but Hunter is just a better prospect.

 

Lucky for you we don't have to worry about Hunter playing for us because he will be long gone before we make our selection.

He may be the best overall player in the draft, but it's not unanimous across scouts like you believe. Half of what he does in college he won't be doing in the NFL. If you don't think that's going to have an impact on how he's looked at, then you've got your head buried in the sand. 

He's a top NFL prospect. He may not be the top choice for every NFL team. I don't know why that's so hard to comprehend. 

[Panthero]

3 hours ago, L-TownCat said:

Not mad at it.  Completely understand.  To be fair, I suck at draft stuff b/c I don’t watch CFB at all.  

Same here. I couldn't find my ass with both hands. Fun to speculate in any case. 

[tukafan21]

8 hours ago, KaijuGato said:

so who do you see winning the award if you are so adamant that Hunter is not winning it? 

Uh, I've never once said he isn't winning it, that if he does, it would be because of his two way play, not because he's the best player on either side of the bal, because he's not.

and honestly, I'd probably give it to Jeanty over Hunter as well.  What Hunter is doing is crazy, but he's not playing on either side of the ball near the level that Jeanty is, nobody is, Jeanty is by far the most dominant player on either side of the ball in the nation.

If not for Hunter, he'd be running away with the award this year, but in the end, I have a feeling Hunter wins.

[tukafan21]

7 hours ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

He doesn't care who wins it tbh

You need a hug. It's clear you like shading Hunter. Everytime his name is brought up you go in attack mode as to why he is not the best player in the draft.

 

Like I said I want Tmac just as much as you, but Hunter is just a better prospect.

 

Lucky for you we don't have to worry about Hunter playing for us because he will be long gone before we make our selection.

No, I don't shade Hunter, you just are too balls deep into him that you think any criticism of his NFL prospects that aren't as the #1 pick in the draft,  is an attack on him.

I only go after people when they do exactly what you do when you talk about wanting him, you talk about his two way play, how he's doing something nobody has done, how he's going to win the Heisman, blah blah blah.

None of those things have anything to do with projecting him in the NFL, which is why I go after you when you say it, because it's nonsensical reasons for wanting to draft a player. 

I point those things out and then give football specific reasons for why I don't want him, why I want someone else like T-Mac.  If you want to go ahead and talk about Hunter's positives as a CB, you'd be making valid posts, but you don't, you just talk about the media superlatives that have literally absolutely zero bearing on what he'll be able to do in the NFL.

And I've told you this, time and time again, but you still can't or refuse to see/understand it.  

It's not that hard, stop talking about wanting him because of what he's doing in college by playing both ways, he's not doing that in the NFL.  Every time you talk about him being the best player in college, you lose any credibility in this discussion as the reason he's the best player in college isn't something that he'll be doing in the NFL, period.  

In fact, it's a very real and legitimate reason I do not even have him on my draft board.

I think he's a CB in the NFL and if the team that drafts him is losing and struggling on offense, he's going to become a problem in the locker room when he feels like he needs to be used on offense because of it.  It's a situation that I want no part of when you combine it with my fear about his frame holding up at the next level long term, as well as that I think WR is a significantly bigger need for us than a CB.

[SmokinwithWilly]

16 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

No, I don't shade Hunter, you just are too balls deep into him that you think any criticism of his NFL prospects that aren't as the #1 pick in the draft,  is an attack on him.

I only go after people when they do exactly what you do when you talk about wanting him, you talk about his two way play, how he's doing something nobody has done, how he's going to win the Heisman, blah blah blah.

None of those things have anything to do with projecting him in the NFL, which is why I go after you when you say it, because it's nonsensical reasons for wanting to draft a player. 

I point those things out and then give football specific reasons for why I don't want him, why I want someone else like T-Mac.  If you want to go ahead and talk about Hunter's positives as a CB, you'd be making valid posts, but you don't, you just talk about the media superlatives that have literally absolutely zero bearing on what he'll be able to do in the NFL.

And I've told you this, time and time again, but you still can't or refuse to see/understand it.  

It's not that hard, stop talking about wanting him because of what he's doing in college by playing both ways, he's not doing that in the NFL.  Every time you talk about him being the best player in college, you lose any credibility in this discussion as the reason he's the best player in college isn't something that he'll be doing in the NFL, period.  

In fact, it's a very real and legitimate reason I do not even have him on my draft board.

I think he's a CB in the NFL and if the team that drafts him is losing and struggling on offense, he's going to become a problem in the locker room when he feels like he needs to be used on offense because of it.  It's a situation that I want no part of when you combine it with my fear about his frame holding up at the next level long term, as well as that I think WR is a significantly bigger need for us than a CB.

It would take a few series of him playing both ways before an OC pulled a Julio Jones and ran a couple of decoy post routes before torching him on the 3rd because he was exhausted. 

[tukafan21]

3 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

It would take a few series of him playing both ways before an OC pulled a Julio Jones and ran a couple of decoy post routes before torching him on the 3rd because he was exhausted. 

While this is true, I'm less concerned about him playing both ways from an endurance standpoint (although it's a very legitimate issue that would hurt him on both sides of the ball, especially late in the season).

The real concern about him playing both sides is the physicality of the game at this level, especially with how slim his frame is, his career wouldn't last more than 5 or 6 years, if even that long.

Playing 5 years full time on both sides of the ball is literally the equivalent to playing a 10 year career.

If you think a 6'1" 185 lbs player can take the pounding of a 10 year career over the course of 5 years, stay healthy doing so, and still play at a high level for a number of years after that, then I have some oceanfront property to sell you in Arizona.

You can't take a player in the Top 10 of the draft (or really anywhere in the first round) if your plan is to use them in a way that will make it near impossible for them to play the length of a 2nd contract in the NFL.

The only way he plays both ways in the NFL is as a CB who gets 5-7 snaps on offense a game, half of which would just have him out there as a decoy to try and take the defenses attention.

[SmokinwithWilly]

4 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

While this is true, I'm less concerned about him playing both ways from an endurance standpoint (although it's a very legitimate issue that would hurt him on both sides of the ball, especially late in the season).

The real concern about him playing both sides is the physicality of the game at this level, especially with how slim his frame is, his career wouldn't last more than 5 or 6 years, if even that long.

Playing 5 years full time on both sides of the ball is literally the equivalent to playing a 10 year career.

If you think a 6'1" 185 lbs player can take the pounding of a 10 year career over the course of 5 years, stay healthy doing so, and still play at a high level for a number of years after that, then I have some oceanfront property to sell you in Arizona.

You can't take a player in the Top 10 of the draft (or really anywhere in the first round) if your plan is to use them in a way that will make it near impossible for them to play the length of a 2nd contract in the NFL.

The only way he plays both ways in the NFL is as a CB who gets 5-7 snaps on offense a game, half of which would just have him out there as a decoy to try and take the defenses attention.

Oh I get what you're saying and completely agree. I just don't think it would long to prove how playing both ways just isn't feasible, even in a single game. He'd become a liability by the 4th quarter. 

Also, any larger receiver is just going to be able to body him off the ball. I think to play DB in the NFL he's going to need to put on at least 15-20 lbs. 

 

[tukafan21]

3 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Oh I get what you're saying and completely agree. I just don't think it would long to prove how playing both ways just isn't feasible, even in a single game. He'd become a liability by the 4th quarter. 

Also, any larger receiver is just going to be able to body him off the ball. I think to play DB in the NFL he's going to need to put on at least 15-20 lbs. 

 

That doesn't concern me as much with how few of those big bodies WRs there are in the NFL these days, at least of the elite WRs, most of them are more fast/quick than big.

It's also why I want T-Mac so bad, he'd be a unicorn in this league right now with his size and skill combo.

I actually think Hunter would make for a nice pairing with Horn because of that.  Horn would be matched with the bigger/stronger WR of a team while Hunter would take on the speedier WRs.

I see a lot of positives to drafting Hunter here, as a CB, but I see way too many downsides to want to take that risk with a pick we have to hit a home run with.  I'm taking T-Mac and Burden over Hunter as a WR and I'm taking Johnson over him as a CB, 100 out of 100 times.

Hunter is a legitimate generational collegiate talent, but the fact is that he's not the best prospect at either of his positions in this year's draft, combine that with other issues that come with him, and I'm just going a different way if he's on the board, let someone else deal with that headache that will follow him.

[CamWhoaaCam]

4 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

He didn't say he won't win it. He said he will win it because of his 2 way play. Once he goes to the NFL, his days of 2 way play are over with. At that point, the reason why he won the heisman will become irrelevant because he won't play both ways on the NFL field. 

He may be the best overall player in the draft, but it's not unanimous across scouts like you believe. Half of what he does in college he won't be doing in the NFL. If you don't think that's going to have an impact on how he's looked at, then you've got your head buried in the sand. 

He's a top NFL prospect. He may not be the top choice for every NFL team. I don't know why that's so hard to comprehend. 

He's going to be the #1 prospect at every level HS/College/NFL

 

Sorry you can't see greatness, maybe one day it hits you just how good this kid really is.

[CamWhoaaCam]

1 hour ago, tukafan21 said:

No, I don't shade Hunter, you just are too balls deep into him that you think any criticism of his NFL prospects that aren't as the #1 pick in the draft,  is an attack on him.

I only go after people when they do exactly what you do when you talk about wanting him, you talk about his two way play, how he's doing something nobody has done, how he's going to win the Heisman, blah blah blah.

None of those things have anything to do with projecting him in the NFL, which is why I go after you when you say it, because it's nonsensical reasons for wanting to draft a player. 

I point those things out and then give football specific reasons for why I don't want him, why I want someone else like T-Mac.  If you want to go ahead and talk about Hunter's positives as a CB, you'd be making valid posts, but you don't, you just talk about the media superlatives that have literally absolutely zero bearing on what he'll be able to do in the NFL.

And I've told you this, time and time again, but you still can't or refuse to see/understand it.  

It's not that hard, stop talking about wanting him because of what he's doing in college by playing both ways, he's not doing that in the NFL.  Every time you talk about him being the best player in college, you lose any credibility in this discussion as the reason he's the best player in college isn't something that he'll be doing in the NFL, period.  

In fact, it's a very real and legitimate reason I do not even have him on my draft board.

I think he's a CB in the NFL and if the team that drafts him is losing and struggling on offense, he's going to become a problem in the locker room when he feels like he needs to be used on offense because of it.  It's a situation that I want no part of when you combine it with my fear about his frame holding up at the next level long term, as well as that I think WR is a significantly bigger need for us than a CB.

I literally said he's the best DB in the draft. I literally said I don't think he will play both ways.

 

It's you who is pushing this 2 way agenda and making it seem like it's me who's pushing it.

 

 

[SmokinwithWilly]

7 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

He's going to be the #1 prospect at every level HS/College/NFL

 

Sorry you can't see greatness, maybe one day it hits you just how good this kid really is.

He hasn't played a single snap in the NFL yet. Lots of prospects don't work out in the NFL for a variety of reasons. I've never said he's not good. I've never said he's not elite. I've said I don't know how well he will translate to the NFL for any number of reasons. You're giving him his statue and jacket already. I'm saying let him play the game before you pronounce him the next god of the NFL. 

[CamWhoaaCam]

3 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

He hasn't played a single snap in the NFL yet. Lots of prospects don't work out in the NFL for a variety of reasons. I've never said he's not good. I've never said he's not elite. I've said I don't know how well he will translate to the NFL for any number of reasons. You're giving him his statue and jacket already. I'm saying let him play the game before you pronounce him the next god of the NFL. 

What exactly are you trying to debate me on sir?

 

I said he is the #1 prospect in the draft and you somehow made this into something bigger than what I said. I'm just confused. You guys be jumping into other people conversation and you don't even know what you're debating me about. 

 

Willy been smoking again!

[SmokinwithWilly]

51 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

That doesn't concern me as much with how few of those big bodies WRs there are in the NFL these days, at least of the elite WRs, most of them are more fast/quick than big.

It's also why I want T-Mac so bad, he'd be a unicorn in this league right now with his size and skill combo.

I actually think Hunter would make for a nice pairing with Horn because of that.  Horn would be matched with the bigger/stronger WR of a team while Hunter would take on the speedier WRs.

I see a lot of positives to drafting Hunter here, as a CB, but I see way too many downsides to want to take that risk with a pick we have to hit a home run with.  I'm taking T-Mac and Burden over Hunter as a WR and I'm taking Johnson over him as a CB, 100 out of 100 times.

Hunter is a legitimate generational collegiate talent, but the fact is that he's not the best prospect at either of his positions in this year's draft, combine that with other issues that come with him, and I'm just going a different way if he's on the board, let someone else deal with that headache that will follow him.

Do you see us keeping Horn? He's going to want that big contract and I don't know that you can give it to him given his injury history. Plus, depending on how we finish the season, he may not want to stay like Luvu. There's something to be said for being with a competitor. I think these last few games are really going to steer where we go in the draft. 

[PappyMay]

I dont think having Horn and one of the top 2 DBs would be an issue at all.

I'm all for Hunter or Will Johnson. Hunter will will be elite and gone I assume when we pick. But Horn has the 5th year option next year then will have to be extended. Having a elite starter opposite of him on 8/9million dollar a year contract could be pretty nice. Also have the fall back if you decide not to extend Horn or trade him next year if a deal isnt worked out your DB room isnt wrecked.