What Are Your Top Offseason Targets Now That Bryce Young Is Showing Promise?

[SmokinwithWilly]

2 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

So let me get this straight his film, on field production, and winning basically the MVP of college football means nothing.

 

Gauudamn I love this place. If that's the case I'm just wasting my time going back n forth with you.

 

If we can't talk about his production on field then there is no way I can win this debate in your eyes.

 

So you win I lose end of discussion.

We can talk about production on the field, but as has already been shown by multiple people, production in college and especially a Heisman don't translate to guaranteed success. 

Moving to the NFL level is bigger picture. Team fit, injury history, size, speed, ability to learn a playbook, relying on talent vs technique, level of competition, everything matters. 

So yes, we can talk college statistics. But we must also talk about all the other factors and how other players may very well fit better or have less question marks surrounding certain factors. 

[CamWhoaaCam]

Just now, SmokinwithWilly said:

We can talk about production on the field, but as has already been shown by multiple people, production in college and especially a Heisman don't translate to guaranteed success. 

Moving to the NFL level is bigger picture. Team fit, injury history, size, speed, ability to learn a playbook, relying on talent vs technique, level of competition, everything matters. 

So yes, we can talk college statistics. But we must also talk about all the other factors and how other players may very well fit better or have less question marks surrounding certain factors. 

Why is Hunter the #1 rated prospect by scouts?

 

It doesn't matter what you think the majority views him as the best prospect. I'm sorry you don't like Colorado, but this is just the fact of the matter.

 

[SmokinwithWilly]

4 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Why is Hunter the #1 rated prospect by scouts?

 

It doesn't matter what you think the majority views him as the best prospect. I'm sorry you don't like Colorado, but this is just the fact of the matter.

 

I don't give 2 shits about Colorado enough to like or dislike them. 

You don't get it. Just because a player is ranked somewhere on a super big brain big board doesn't mean that player will actually fit what an NFL team is looking for. Teams look at the player as a whole and will he fit what they want to do. 

Hunter may be the first player off the board. He may not. He's an elite level player but he's not the only one. Other teams may have different valuations because they want to build their team differently and instead of taking Hunter at one, they could trade back and get picks instead. It doesn't mean he isn't worth the 1st pick. It just means he's not worth the 1st pick to them. 

If it was as simple as looking at college, there would never be a bust because everything you need to know is right there. But there's always the intangibles. Trevor Lawrence was hands down the best player in his draft, generational player, the next HoF QB, couldn't miss prospect. Except is hasn't worked out that way. 

You're acting like he's already got his jacket and bust in Canton. We all agree he's an elite prospect. We don't all agree with him necessarily being the most desired player at DB or WR. There's too many other factors in play. That's the NFL and it happens every damn year that some top prospect slides because someone took a Mitch Trubisky instead of Pat Mahomes. 

[tukafan21]

48 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

So let me get this straight his film, on field production, and winning basically the MVP of college football means nothing.

 

Gauudamn I love this place. If that's the case I'm just wasting my time going back n forth with you.

 

If we can't talk about his production on field then there is no way I can win this debate in your eyes.

 

So you win I lose end of discussion.

The college MVP as you put it has literally 0% bearing on anything, more Heisman winners end up as nothing in the NFL, or just average players, than they do actual superstars.  

Just looking at since the turn of the millennium, there's only been 4 players who won it that I think you could say were legit superstars in Burrow, Cam, Lamar, and Henry.  After that, the next best players are DeVonta Smith, Kyler, Baker, Bush, and Carson Palmer, with Jameis probably being the next one on the list.  DeVonta could move into that superstar level, but 5 out of 24 winners turning into superstars since 2000 is a pretty bad number.

So no, winning the Heisman has absolutely ZERO affect on a player's NFL prospects, and if you had to say it leaned one way or the other, based on recent history, it would lean towards being a better college player than NFL player.

His on field production means a little bit, because obviously, if you can't produce at all, you're not going to be a highly rated prospect.  But once you're putting up great numbers, the difference between a few hundred yards or a handful of TDs, is completely negligible and meaningless when it comes down to grading out prospects for the NFL (for example, T-Mac has more yards, Hunter has more TDs, and Burden has had a down statistical year, but I put zero bearing on any of those 3's actual stats when looking at them as NFL prospects).

But that first one you mention, his film, is just a JOKE for you of all people to mention.  All you ever talk about is his two way play, his stats, and his Heisman candidacy, NONE of which mean anything.  You can't spend months talking about that stuff and then now try to say, "wait, how can you say his film doesn't mean anything?"

Film is all that matters, and specifically, how it translates TO THE NEXT LEVEL... NOT... how many stats it helps you accumulate in college, because college stats are always just weird, it's the nature of the game at that level, you can compile stupid stats, but not be an NFL player and you can struggle statistically and end up a superstar in the NFL (again, look at Mahomes' college career, it wasn't all that great until his last year and even then he didn't get any Heisman votes anyways).

 

[Panthero]

6 hours ago, L-TownCat said:

I’m one of those “keep your strengths strong” kinda guys.  Moton is getting older and if the line can’t hold up, a new receiver won’t matter.

I get the logic. Makes sense. And I'd take a center in the third. Mine breaks down

1. DL

2. WR

3. OL, brailsford would be nice. 

[CamWhoaaCam]

6 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

The college MVP as you put it has literally 0% bearing on anything, more Heisman winners end up as nothing in the NFL, or just average players, than they do actual superstars.  

Just looking at since the turn of the millennium, there's only been 4 players who won it that I think you could say were legit superstars in Burrow, Cam, Lamar, and Henry.  After that, the next best players are DeVonta Smith, Kyler, Baker, Bush, and Carson Palmer, with Jameis probably being the next one on the list.  DeVonta could move into that superstar level, but 5 out of 24 winners turning into superstars since 2000 is a pretty bad number.

So no, winning the Heisman has absolutely ZERO affect on a player's NFL prospects, and if you had to say it leaned one way or the other, based on recent history, it would lean towards being a better college player than NFL player.

His on field production means a little bit, because obviously, if you can't produce at all, you're not going to be a highly rated prospect.  But once you're putting up great numbers, the difference between a few hundred yards or a handful of TDs, is completely negligible and meaningless when it comes down to grading out prospects for the NFL (for example, T-Mac has more yards, Hunter has more TDs, and Burden has had a down statistical year, but I put zero bearing on any of those 3's actual stats when looking at them as NFL prospects).

But that first one you mention, his film, is just a JOKE for you of all people to mention.  All you ever talk about is his two way play, his stats, and his Heisman candidacy, NONE of which mean anything.  You can't spend months talking about that stuff and then now try to say, "wait, how can you say his film doesn't mean anything?"

Film is all that matters, and specifically, how it translates TO THE NEXT LEVEL... NOT... how many stats it helps you accumulate in college, because college stats are always just weird, it's the nature of the game at that level, you can compile stupid stats, but not be an NFL player and you can struggle statistically and end up a superstar in the NFL (again, look at Mahomes' college career, it wasn't all that great until his last year and even then he didn't get any Heisman votes anyways).

 

Sir how many Heisman were defensive players?

 

You comparing him to all offensive players.

 

Remember Charles Woodson aka the only defensive Heisman winner?

 

What a coincidence they both played both ways. Also he went on to be a HOF player. Be fair you're acting like you don't know football. Snap out of it!

[tukafan21]

38 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Sir how many Heisman were defensive players?

 

You comparing him to all offensive players.

 

Remember Charles Woodson aka the only defensive Heisman winner?

 

What a coincidence they both played both ways. Also he went on to be a HOF player. Be fair you're acting like you don't know football. Snap out of it!

Hunter isn’t winning the award because of his defensive play, it would be because of his two way play.  

Woodson had 12 catches for 238 yards that year, he won the award for his defensive play, not his two way play.

I guarantee he won’t win the Bednarik as the nations best defender, something Woodson won.

The point was you made the argument of “winning the college MVP means nothing?”

And you’re helping prove my point here, he’s winning it for his two way play, not his play on a single side of the ball.  He’s going to play a single side of the ball in the NFL, so no, winning that award means nothing for his NFL projection as he’s not winning it for what he’ll do in the NFL.

He’s not the best CB in college, he’s not the best WR in college, so why do you want to draft him over those players who project as better NFL players at those positions?

[CamWhoaaCam]

4 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Hunter isn’t winning the award because of his defensive play, it would be because of his two way play.  

Woodson had 12 catches for 238 yards that year, he won the award for his defensive play, not his two way play.

I guarantee he won’t win the Bednarik as the nations best defender, something Woodson won.

The point was you made the argument of “winning the college MVP means nothing?”

And you’re helping prove my point here, he’s winning it for his two way play, not his play on a single side of the ball.  He’s going to play a single side of the ball in the NFL, so no, winning that award means nothing for his NFL projection as he’s not winning it for what he’ll do in the NFL.

He’s not the best CB in college, he’s not the best WR in college, so why do you want to draft him over those players who project as better NFL players at those positions?

I said he was the best college player in football. He most likely is going to win the Heisman. That award is basically like the MVP of college football.

 

He's the best prospect according to the professionals.

 

Sir these are all facts I just stated. You can't debate facts sorry.

[tukafan21]

5 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

I said he was the best college player in football. He most likely is going to win the Heisman. That award is basically like the MVP of college football.

 

He's the best prospect according to the professionals.

 

Sir these are all facts I just stated. You can't debate facts sorry.

Being the best player because you play both ways doesn’t mean jack squat for playing one side of the ball in the NFL.  It’s literally the definition of irrelevant unless you actually think he can play both sides of the ball, full time in the NFL, and not have his body completely break down within a few years, and do it at an all pro level.

Not all experts have him as the top prospect, in fact, many do not

These are all facts you can’t debate, sorry.

If you want to talk up Hunter’s NFL prospect, feel free, because he’s a Top 10 draft pick.

But stop saying nonsense about winning the Heisman having anything to do with his projections and draft stock, because it literally means nothing, like literally NOTHING.  

If a scout or front office exec in an NFL team’s draft prep said, “but hey, he won the Heisman so we should rank him better or look at him differently” they would get fired on the spot.

Edited yesterday at 11:19 AM by tukafan21

[KaijuGato]

45 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Hunter isn’t winning the award because of his defensive play, it would be because of his two way play.  

so who do you see winning the award if you are so adamant that Hunter is not winning it? 

[CamWhoaaCam]

30 minutes ago, KaijuGato said:

so who do you see winning the award if you are so adamant that Hunter is not winning it? 

He doesn't care who wins it tbh

1 hour ago, tukafan21 said:

Being the best player because you play both ways doesn’t mean jack squat for playing one side of the ball in the NFL.  It’s literally the definition of irrelevant unless you actually think he can play both sides of the ball, full time in the NFL, and not have his body completely break down within a few years, and do it at an all pro level.

Not all experts have him as the top prospect, in fact, many do not

These are all facts you can’t debate, sorry.

If you want to talk up Hunter’s NFL prospect, feel free, because he’s a Top 10 draft pick.

But stop saying nonsense about winning the Heisman having anything to do with his projections and draft stock, because it literally means nothing, like literally NOTHING.  

If a scout or front office exec in an NFL team’s draft prep said, “but hey, he won the Heisman so we should rank him better or look at him differently” they would get fired on the spot.

You need a hug. It's clear you like shading Hunter. Everytime his name is brought up you go in attack mode as to why he is not the best player in the draft.

 

Like I said I want Tmac just as much as you, but Hunter is just a better prospect.

 

Lucky for you we don't have to worry about Hunter playing for us because he will be long gone before we make our selection.

Edited yesterday at 12:24 PM by CamWhoaaCam

[CmC2k]

I think canales is gonna wanna have his version of Evans and Godwin here in Tetairoa McMillan and XL. We can then take a true NT with our 2nd round pick or a pass rusher. I think the defense should be better next year when we get derrick brown back and once, we get a true NT because shy Tuttle isn't a true nose and would be better served as rotational DE in the 3-4. 

[ForJimmy]

2 hours ago, CmC2k said:

I think canales is gonna wanna have his version of Evans and Godwin here in Tetairoa McMillan and XL. We can then take a true NT with our 2nd round pick or a pass rusher. I think the defense should be better next year when we get derrick brown back and once, we get a true NT because shy Tuttle isn't a true nose and would be better served as rotational DE in the 3-4. 

Godwin is a free agent. We could actually sign him…

[L-TownCat]

5 hours ago, Panthero said:

I get the logic. Makes sense. And I'd take a center in the third. Mine breaks down

1. DL

2. WR

3. OL, brailsford would be nice. 

Not mad at it.  Completely understand.  To be fair, I suck at draft stuff b/c I don’t watch CFB at all.