Bryce Young - Good and Bad, what say you?

[frankw]

2 minutes ago, countryboi said:

Teddy threw for 3,733 yards that season, the best of his career. If Bryce played that well, I would be ecstatic. 

Isn't that what skeptics are referring to? We would be ecstatic about that from our first overall pick? That's how low we've dropped the bar already. This is not a mid round QB. That's why these discussions get so tense. People struggle to separate Bryce Young the person from what Bryce Young the first overall pick is expected to be. And we have only moved further and further away from the narrative surrounding him before the draft that he was such a great prospect that he did not need to be surrounded by elite players to look like a franchise QB. He would elevate those around him. Until he does that IMO you keep bringing in competition and pushing him. Otherwise we are not a serious franchise.

[Navy_football]

Just now, frankw said:

Isn't that what skeptics are referring to? We would be ecstatic about that from our first overall pick? That's how low we've dropped the bar already. This is not a mid round QB. That's why these discussions get so tense. People struggle to separate Bryce Young the person from what Bryce Young the first overall pick is expected to be. And we have only moved further and further away from the narrative surrounding him before the draft that he was such a great prospect that he did not need to be surrounded by elite players to look like a franchise QB. He would elevate those around him. Until he does that IMO you keep bringing in competition and pushing him. Otherwise we are not a serious franchise.

Doesn't matter when he was drafted at this point. If he can continue to improve, then we have our guy. If not, then we try again. Right now, he's looking like he's improving. Too early to give up on him now. 

[countryboi]

Just now, frankw said:

Isn't that what skeptics are referring to? We would be ecstatic about that from our first overall pick? That's how low we've dropped the bar already. This is not a mid round QB. That's why these discussions get so tense. People struggle to separate Bryce Young the person from what Bryce Young the first overall pick is expected to be. And we have only moved further and further away from the narrative surrounding him before the draft that he was such a great prospect that he did not need to be surrounded by elite players to look like a franchise QB. He would elevate those around him. Until he does that IMO you keep bringing in competition and pushing him. Otherwise we are not a serious franchise.

The problem with your argument is that you don't recognize when today isn't your day. Just admit that Bryce had a good day and save the complaints for tomorrow. Arguments like this come across as disingenuous, because if you can't acknowledge the good things, how can I believe you when you say how bad he is?

[Newtcase]

Bryce played a solid game and gave the team a chance today.  It’s hard to know if this is an outlier, a stepping stone or the ceiling.  He earned the next start.

[raleigh-panther]

I felt today’s game was a barometer for both Canales and Young 

they have both improved over this year

defense with Evero meh.  Those players looked totally out of position throughout this game and that was playing conservatively..

if they are going to score anyway, why not get after them

i heard a story earlier in the year that Denver’s defense regressed under him…not sure if true or not but really…would not cry if he moved on…bring in Saleh and turn up the pressure

 

[mav1234]

6 minutes ago, frankw said:

Isn't that what skeptics are referring to? We would be ecstatic about that from our first overall pick? That's how low we've dropped the bar already. This is not a mid round QB. That's why these discussions get so tense. People struggle to separate Bryce Young the person from what Bryce Young the first overall pick is expected to be. And we have only moved further and further away from the narrative surrounding him before the draft that he was such a great prospect that he did not need to be surrounded by elite players to look like a franchise QB. He would elevate those around him. Until he does that IMO you keep bringing in competition and pushing him. Otherwise we are not a serious franchise.

Right - this was a very good game from him, but it's one game. Even this four game stretch is good but it's not incredible in the way you settle on him no matter what for another year. Competition makes these guys better, and Bryce has yet to earn an undisputed position as QB #1 next year IMO. And that's coming from someone that has been really excited by his progress the last few weeks.

[electro's horse]

3 minutes ago, Newtcase said:

Bryce played a solid game and gave the team a chance today.  It’s hard to know if this is an outlier, a stepping stone or the ceiling.  He earned the next start.

It’s not hard to know if it’s an outlier. It’s an outlier by definition. 

[frankw]

10 minutes ago, countryboi said:

The problem with your argument is that you don't recognize when today isn't your day. Just admit that Bryce had a good day and save the complaints for tomorrow. Arguments like this come across as disingenuous, because if you can't acknowledge the good things, how can I believe you when you say how bad he is?

I think we're at an impasse as you are refusing to address points made that go well beyond hot takes such as "Bryce Young is bad". I've already given him credit for today.

The conversation is much more than just good versus bad. The conversation at it's root is does Bryce Young have the tools to consistently lead an offense to more than one or two passing touchdowns? We do not know the answer to that today. We know he played better and hats off to him.

But the team around him also stepped up. And many negative things have been said about the defense this season. While they did take some lumps they helped keep the offense in this and certainly prevented a blowout. Credit needs to be given there too. Because typically in games with this iteration of the Panthers offense when they put up 4 field goals and only one touchdown against an offense with a young star quarterback it is usually not a close game.

This was a team effort and a well coached game from Canales.

Edited 2 hours ago by frankw

[CPF4LIFE]

5 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Right - this was a very good game from him, but it's one game. Even this four game stretch is good but it's not incredible in the way you settle on him no matter what for another year. Competition makes these guys better, and Bryce has yet to earn an undisputed position as QB #1 next year IMO. And that's coming from someone that has been really excited by his progress the last few weeks.

Perfectly reasonable. Its been steps with Bryce but they are baby to me. I havent seen anything huge yet. People don't comprehend how bad he was going all the way back to after the green bay game last year. So anything was an improvement for him.

[frankw]

12 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Doesn't matter when he was drafted at this point. If he can continue to improve, then we have our guy. If not, then we try again. Right now, he's looking like he's improving. Too early to give up on him now. 

I'm just going to respectfully and vehemently disagree with you on this. The return on our investment needs to be significantly more than a game manager. If not then we keep looking. I do not believe that is remotely unreasonable.

[countryboi]

Just now, frankw said:

I think we're at an impasse as you are refusing to address points made that go well beyond hot takes such as "Bryce Young is bad". I've already given him credit for today.

The conversation is much more than just good versus bad. The conversation at it's root is does Bryce Young have the tools to consistently lead an offense to more than one or two passing touchdowns? We do not know the answer to that today. We know he played better and hats off to him.

But the team around him also stepped up. And many negative things have been said about the defense this season. While they did take some lumps they helped keep the offense in this and certainly prevented a blowout. Credit needs to be given there too. Because typically in games with this iteration of thw Panthers offense when they put up 4 field goals and only one touchdown against an offense with a young star quarterback it is usually not a close game.

This was a team effort and a well coached game from Canales.

I don't care nothing about that. I don't even really give a poo about Bryce's future with the Panthers, but he played well today. You can argue with someone else about tomorrow.

[mav1234]

1 minute ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Perfectly reasonable. Its been steps with Bryce but they are baby to me. I havent seen anything huge yet. People don't comprehend how bad he was going all the way back to after the green bay game last year. So anything was an improvement for him.

I think we see the last few weeks a little differently but I don't blame you for those thoughts on baby steps as progress. Regardless of how one lands on that, he needs to keep improving.

[mav1234]

1 minute ago, frankw said:

I'm just going to respectfully and vehemently disagree with you on this. The return on our investment needs to be significantly more than a game manager. If not then we keep looking. I do not believe that is remotely unreasonable.

It's not unreasonable but I would say the investment just doesn't matter anymore. To me, being #1 or Mr irrelevant shouldn't guarantee him a starting job next year. I will say the last few weeks have gone very far in changing my mind from "not sure I want him on the team at all" to "well poo, maybe he could win a starting job next year if he keeps improving."

[Peon Awesome]

I had pretty much accepted that Bryce Young was never going to have a career here but this game legitimately gives me pause. He was really outstanding. We have 6 games left to see if it's a flash in the pan or true growth. It would certainly be better for the long term outlook of this team if he could pan out so we don't have to keep starting from scratch. I'm now keeping an open mind