Serious Thoughts Fellas What numbers would Bryce..

[KillerKat]

4 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Unfortunately, 23 games into his career we have yet to see that happen.

IMO, there is nothing else to see. I cannot recall a first round QB ever looking this bad and then subsequently recovering to have an even NFL average starting QB career.

He is very clearly a backup caliber QB at his extreme ceiling. 

We were wrong. A lot of people ended up being wrong. It just is what it is.

yeah, a first overall should be showing signs of leadership, confidence, fire and determination. Things that cant be coached.  None of that I have seen from Bryce at any point.

[*FreeFua*]

On 11/22/2024 at 12:40 PM, PadresPanthersFan said:

Honestly you'll know it when you see it. Stats can lie. But he for me has to pass the eye test. He'll miss throws. The wr will drop balls. But you know a starting qb when you see it. We need to win bc of him. Not in spite of him. 

This

If he continues on the trajectory he has been on these last 3 weeks I’d be completely fine rolling into next season with giving him the whole year 

Stats lie. I just want to see him continue to push the ball downfield when opportunity presents itself. Make a few plays outside the pocket. I’d also like to see him run a bit more tbh

Bryce seems to be more confident these last 3 weeks. You can hear him at the LOS. He isn’t crazy fidgety doing interviews. 

But yeah… we’ll see

Edited November 23 by *FreeFua*

[mrcompletely11]

39 minutes ago, KillerKat said:

yeah, a first overall should be showing signs of leadership, confidence, fire and determination. Things that cant be coached.  None of that I have seen from Bryce at any point.

"yeah, you know, its uh,  its on me, I, uh I have to get better you know, so yeah ummm its uh something I have to work on you know........" (as he rubs his sleeveless arms)

Edited November 23 by mrcompletely11

[Pejorative Miscreant]

If we are still asking this question I think we know how it will end. If we haven’t seen it yet then it is likely unattainable. 
 

Never say never though. 

[PadresPanthersFan]

4 hours ago, *FreeFua* said:

This

If he continues on the trajectory he has been on these last 3 weeks I’d be completely fine rolling into next season with giving him the whole year 

Stats lie. I just want to see him continue to push the ball downfield when opportunity presents itself. Make a few plays outside the pocket. I’d also like to see him run a bit more tbh

Bryce seems to be more confident these last 3 weeks. You can hear him at the LOS. He isn’t crazy fidgety doing interviews. 

But yeah… we’ll see

He has been better the past few weeks and I think he had his longest nfl run last week so he is capable.  But the bar he set is subterranean 

Regardless I want more competition for him next year

[strato]

I mean, we are conditioned now to accept a little higher level of subpar play (subpar for a legit NFL starter)  as improvement and proof that he is a real NFL QB. 

When I remember the first game he played I was baffled, totally, at the lack of downfield action, that I blamed it on Reich protecting him. I was basically grasping for any straw to explain it. His first game. There was no Reich protecting him like I thought, Reich simply knew Young could not have success throwing downfield. His stupid slow footwork and weak arm is why, It wasn't to keep him safe. 

How many now, 23 times? That has not changed. We are just conditioned to expect less, because we have been watching SO much less than 'NFL good' play from him.

Now, watching him try to play NFL ball is no longer a foreign and weird experience, because we have seen it 23 times. Conditioned. So you get into relativism or a grading curve or something. Time to wake the fug up and drop these low expectations being his bar for good. 

Edited November 24 by strato

[lightsout]

It's not about numbers or charts. It's film. Film don't lie. Bryce would have to show command of the offense, the ability to be a calm during the chaos and the ability to motivate the offense. Bryce would have to be on the field as the offense moves consistently. If he does that week to week, and the offense can put up 24+ points, I'm happy. Anything less and he ain't it. It's that simple. It's why The Golden Calf of Bristol had the length of time he had. Team did well with him out there. Was he short lived? Absolutely, but that one stretch of games was fun as hell to watch. Bryce has to at least do that. He has to at least be The Golden Calf of Bristol in his prime. Lol Jesus fug the bar is low and Bryce can still walk under it

[MHS831]

Stats really show the picture more than they lie, but I get what folks are saying.  Tua in Miami, for example, just got a deal and his stats are inflated by some pretty explosive "after the catch" guys.  I would say that Bryce has a better OL and has lost 3 of his top 4 WRs this year.  He really has not had a great TE--so to be fair, stats work both ways.  But you do not pay a QB $35m to learn football for 3 seasons.  So to answer your question, do I feel that we can win with Bryce with 1 timeout, 2 minutes to go 80 yards, down by 5?  No.  When that answer is "Yes," we have our starter.

[MHS831]

9 hours ago, lightsout said:

It's not about numbers or charts. It's film. Film don't lie. Bryce would have to show command of the offense, the ability to be a calm during the chaos and the ability to motivate the offense. Bryce would have to be on the field as the offense moves consistently. If he does that week to week, and the offense can put up 24+ points, I'm happy. Anything less and he ain't it. It's that simple. It's why The Golden Calf of Bristol had the length of time he had. Team did well with him out there. Was he short lived? Absolutely, but that one stretch of games was fun as hell to watch. Bryce has to at least do that. He has to at least be The Golden Calf of Bristol in his prime. Lol Jesus fug the bar is low and Bryce can still walk under it

Yes.  And this converts directly to confidence.  Does the coach have confidence to call a deep dig or seam route?  Does Bryce have confidence in his ability to be the Alpha?  Do his teammates have confidence.  About film--when I see Cam Newton's pre-snap confidence vs. Bryce's, it is night and day.   Film--tells you if the WRs are open (why l love watching the Replay telecasts from the end zone cameras--you can see it.  I have seen 2 WRs open and Bryce's eyes are on the outlet WR or the pass rush. )  You can see progressions, and he has improved a bit--but he is very quick to rush through 1 and 2 and checkdown--that is a lack of confidence in his ability to read the defense.  I had a former NFL TE (Deems Maye) who played QB in high school (not sure about college) tell me that the best QBs read the defense by knowing where everyone will be when the ball is to arrive--not where they are.  I think his QB at the time was Humphries.  He said that Humphries would throw the ball into coverage before the cuts etc.  because he understood DB momentum, zone areas, etc.  and he could just see it.  Said so when people say nobody was open, they are usually right because nobody should be "open" when the QB has the ball--when the ball arrives, everyone should be open.  He said Humphries was never "great" but his skills were limited--from a small school--but his ability to read a defense made him never give up on a route.

[AceBoogie]

When you rely on stats and personal bias you really miss the picture. It’s about the team. The team as a whole is not good enough around Bryce for him to put up the gaudy numbers some will throw out. It’s not about that, it’s about how the offense functions as a unit when he’s on the field and what part he plays in that. 
 

Is he holding the offense back? That’s the only evaluation you need. Since he’s retuned to the lineup that has not been the case. That’s exactly what got him benched and why most here feel like he can’t be capable. More often than not he’s appeared to be holding back the rest of the team. If he can consistently be one of the positives of the offense and continues to show growth then you roll with him. You’ve invested too much not to. 
 

It’s not hard, this decision will literally play itself out if you let it. 

[mrcompletely11]

22 minutes ago, AceBoogie said:

When you rely on stats and personal bias you really miss the picture. It’s about the team. The team as a whole is not good enough around Bryce for him to put up the gaudy numbers some will throw out. It’s not about that, it’s about how the offense functions as a unit when he’s on the field and what part he plays in that. 
 

Is he holding the offense back? That’s the only evaluation you need. Since he’s retuned to the lineup that has not been the case. That’s exactly what got him benched and why most here feel like he can’t be capable. More often than not he’s appeared to be holding back the rest of the team. If he can consistently be one of the positives of the offense and continues to show growth then you roll with him. You’ve invested too much not to. 
 

It’s not hard, this decision will literally play itself out if you let it. 

Honest question.  What else does he need?

[Icege]

5 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Honest question.  What else does he need?

Speaking only for myself, I think that Bryce just needs time behind a competent OL (which he has gotten this season) with NFL-caliber weapons (debatable, but they're definitely improved from last season). He's got the skillset required, just not the height desired. If JT continues to ascend at the TE position then that will help a ton with playing off of the run game.

What does the team need? Defense, defense, defense. It's hard for an offense led by a young QB to constantly be playing catch up (especially last season with a bottom 5 OL and bottom 5 weapons). This season through ten games, the defense has held opponents to under 20 points just once and that was against the Daniel Jones-led Giants. To put in perspective how bad that is... Bryce has put up 20+ points twice in five games. That says a lot about the way the defense has performed.

[AceBoogie]

31 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Honest question.  What else does he need?

Time. He’s out there playing with a bunch of young guys. There’s college teams older than the offense right now. They’ve  let him down the last few weeks with drops. But if they’re all young and growing together then let it build. Bryce just can’t be the one holding the group back. But, if you’re rebuilding you just want to see signs of growth. 

[Jackie Lee]

David Newton

 

@DNewtonespn

·

1m

 

Panthers coach Dave Canales said Bryce Young proving he can be a franchise quarterback is still far into the future.