If you wanted Danny Dimes here’s the chance

[Basbear]

5 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I would say maybe 8 in a tier by themselves and all but 2 where picked in the top of the first

allen

pat m

stroud

burrow

jackson

hurts (maybe)

Herbert

Stafford

 

I think love belongs at the tail along with purdy(look up his stats any 2022-now he's elite)

 

You got to include dak and goff in the top 10, just numbers and wins, above love and purdy but behind your list. 

[MHS831]

2 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

so fuging weird, its almost like you are related to him or something.  There are 6 fuging years of tape on him and he fuging sucks.  I dont give two shits about his age, his arm, his mobility, a new change of scenery he fuging sucks.  Sorry if you simply dont see it.  Its counterproductive to bring him in for Gods knows what.  So he looks good in practice, so fuging what he sucks when the game clock starts.   And I am pretty damn certain Morgan and canales are not betting their futures on danny dimes.  Your "bottom fishing" method is fuging stupid, its not a plan its throwing poo against the wall to see if it sticks. 

You talk about weapons and the dude had barkley and struggled to win 5 games.   I am not sure why you are dying on this hill but you look like a fool doing it. 

You want stats?   You want to evaluate performance?  Lets compare Jones with Cam Newton.   Crazy, right? 

[kungfoodude]

5 hours ago, MHS831 said:

You allow him to compete--you all are talking as if I am proposing making him the starter. Give him a new coach, new weapons, good OL, etc. and see what happens. You are saying, "Well Damn.  It did not work for 3 guys..."  Right now, our C is injured, we lost our top 2 WRs.  Better question:  If you need a QB, Why would you not take a chance on bringing in a QB who was a former first rounder, a good arm, intelligence, mobility, youth, etc.  and see how he does out of NY--with a better OL, better running game, better receivers.  I am not saying give him a 10-year contract, I am saying give him a chance and if he does not work out, cut him and look for another.  To me, how can you sit there with Bryce and an opportunity to sign a veteran QB on the cheap comes available and you say--"Not us. We're good.  We are waiting for Patrick Mahommes."  Jones' problem is obviously mental--and he has little support.  Why is this so frigging hard to comprehend.  It is called "bottom fishing" and it is better than sitting in the boat.  Not giving him a shot is like a starving man turning down a hamburger because he thinks steak is better.  You draft a QB too--why is this so damn hard--because he sucked on a bad offense?  Most QBs would...Now I do not know why the are cutting him, but if you forget the performance on a bad team, you look at skills and potential--but I assure you, he was verbally abused in NY and it gets to you--crushes your confidence.  Bring him home, let him regroup and see what he can do--why is that so outrageous?  You like Bryce?  You think we are drafting Cam Ward?  What is your plan?

 

Who is thinking, "We are good with Bryce" that has a functional brain?

Jones is also clearly a broken toy. We don't do well with broken toys. 

[csx]

If we were looking for a potential backup for Newton or some other intrenched starter, okay. 

[outlaw4]

So sounds like Jones wants to sign with a playoff contender before season's end.

First off, definitely not us.

Second, that scream more like a guy that would rather ride the coatails of a winner than someone who wants a more viable path to be a starter again.

Third, which playoff team will actually want him? Initial guess is Vikings.

Edited 11 hours ago by outlaw4

[strato]

On 11/22/2024 at 8:45 PM, MHS831 said:

thanks--I don't really keep up with that stuff.  I think people see this as an all or nothing proposition. It is not--if he were to come here, it would have to be on a hometown discount and he would enter as one of four QBs.  We watched Darnold and screamed, "He sucks!"  and he is playing well for the Vikings with a good situation;  We screamed, "Baker sucks!"  and he signed a biggish deal with the Bucs and is a pretty nice fit in their system.  You'd think we'd be willing to take a low-risk chance on this guy.  NY is the worst place to play if you are on a bad team (Ask Aaron Rogers).  The Giants have a banged up and fragmented roster.  Jones is emotionally and mentally drained.  Could he be done?  Yep.  Could he be good somewhere else with better weaponry, coaching, and protection.  Yep.

 

 

Okay so I am reading something in The Athletic and it says that Jones had to pass through waivers. So I don't know.

I looked this stuff up when we were number one there all offseason and I thought it said 4 years in the league got you vested, as they call it. 

Vested gets you out of waivers as I understood it. I probably got something wrong, but when I think about the slack quality of journalism these days I wonder about that.

So I went and looked, again. Well, well. 

For everyone:

"When a player has accrued at least four seasons in the NFL, they are considered a vested veteran. When these vested veterans get cut, they are released and their contract is terminated.

When a vested veteran is released, they are an unrestricted free agent that can sign with any NFL team, and the team that released them doesn’t need to provide any additional compensation."

It runs it all down here, where the quotes came from:

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/waived-vs-released-nfl/

As far as Jones, the team turned down his 5th year option so I knew that meant he had 4 years in, because they re-signed him anyway, after turning down the much cheaper extra year. 

The Athletic is owned by the New York Times so I shouldn't be surprised. That paper was an institution once upon a time but they let their standards go.

[strato]

Too late to edit above but the quote is from this Diane Russini article in the Athletic:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5941684/2024/11/23/russinis-what-im-hearing-the-day-the-jets-fell-apart-and-the-broncos-rallied-belichick-best-fits/

Quote

Daniel Jones was released by the New York Giants and is expected to clear waivers by Monday. Teams interested in signing him can do so after 4 p.m. Eastern Time on Monday, though it’s more likely that a signing would occur on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Okay.. there you have sorry I left that out the first post. 

Also waivers keep the contract intact. That is the major difference in released and waived. It's all in that link from the other post.

[Jackie Lee]

43 minutes ago, strato said:

Too late to edit above but the quote is from this Diane Russini article in the Athletic:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5941684/2024/11/23/russinis-what-im-hearing-the-day-the-jets-fell-apart-and-the-broncos-rallied-belichick-best-fits/

Okay.. there you have sorry I left that out the first post. 

Also waivers keep the contract intact. That is the major difference in released and waived. It's all in that link from the other post.

Strange, every news article and tweet I just searched all mentioned waivers. It is definitely his sixth year of at least 6 games. All I was trying to think of earlier was at the vet min could he beat out Bryce in camp next year lol. He's kinda got the old Darnold issue where he can obviously launch deep balls and qb run at a level Bryce will never achieve, but it sounds like he would be content being like a Josh Allen backup who doesn't throw the whole game plan out the window if he has to come in for a series or two. If we had him and for some reason still wanted to start Bryce he would kinda do what Justin Fields was doing the other night with Dangeruss, coming in for designed runs and maybe some play action/triple option rpo things to go deep. That would be so obvious and sad though. At least Russ can still sling it 40 yards in the air with a flick of the wrist

[kungfoodude]

10 hours ago, MHS831 said:

You want stats?   You want to evaluate performance?  Lets compare Jones with Cam Newton.   Crazy, right? 

Ah, the ol Cam Newton hating. 

I will give you credit, the week of pretending to be a Daniel Jones super fan is a very clever way to disguise your hatred of Cam. 

[MHS831]

11 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Who is thinking, "We are good with Bryce" that has a functional brain?

Jones is also clearly a broken toy. We don't do well with broken toys. 

So a starting QB with 5+ years of experience and whose stats are very similar (if you do math) with Cam Newton's stats (who had much better defenses and offensive lines) here becomes available, and Bryce is your QB and you do NOT kick the tires on Jones.  You simply call him a "broken toy" and do nothing.  That sounds like a very passive approach.  Remember, you labeled him, not the stats he accumulated on some pretty bad teams since 2019.  I am telling you what a smart GM would do, and even if Jones is broken and can't be fixed, you make that determination after giving the matter due diligence.  You and Completely are simply forcing your opinions about his play into logic, and the stats do not support them.  Put him in a better situation and he will do better, but in a bad situation, with some terrible offensive lines, WRs, and bad defenses,  he was on track to have stats that parallel Cam Newton--like it or not--numbers don't lie, nor does his size, arm strength, speed, and intelligence.  Broken? I am saying he is an interesting prospect and should not be overlooked by bias, misinformation, and context.

[mrcompletely11]

3 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

You and Completely are simply forcing your opinions about his play into logic, and the stats do not support them.

LOL wut?

His career stats.

24-44-1 With 9 wins his highest ever.  With Barkley

64%

14000 yards passing going over 3000 just 1 fuging time

70 tds 47 ints to go along with 50 fumbles.  50 fuging fumbles

In short he has 1 season over 5 wins.  1.

Edited 2 hours ago by mrcompletely11

[MHS831]

3 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Ah, the ol Cam Newton hating. 

I will give you credit, the week of pretending to be a Daniel Jones super fan is a very clever way to disguise your hatred of Cam. 

What the hell?  How is presenting Cam's stats hating him?  The point is not to hate Cam, it is to show you how similar Jones is to him and why you take a look at him.  I mentioned Jones has the skill set to take a look--the response is, "look at his 5 years of performance."  So I compare him to the greatest QB in franchise history, and the stats are similar--while Jones was in a worse situation.  Now that is "hating?"  Come on.  This is a meritless, ignorant, personal attack because you are wrong.  Just stop it.  You all attack the poster when you have nothing.  So saying "we should consider a guy with similar stats and size to Cam Newton" is now hating Cam and making me a Jones super fan- that is just stupid.

 

[MHS831]

22 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

LOL wut?

His career stats.

24-44-1 With 9 wins his highest ever.  With Barkley

64%

14000 yards passing going over 3000 just 1 fuging time

70 tds 47 ints to go along with 50 fumbles.  50 fuging fumbles

In short he has 1 season over 5 wins.  1.

Did I mention that he was on worse teams?  Yes.  Do QBs alone win games?  No.  Did Cam, on a much better team with some awesome defenses ever have 2 consecutive winning seasons?  No.  So now you are cherry picking,  If the overall stats are similar, you take a look at him.   I told you that you look at his skill set---but you wanted to tell me that he sucks and mentioned performance.  I just presented performance--and his numbers are very similar to Cam Newton's numbers--a player most call the best Panther QB ever--and I agree.  By the way, Fumbles are evidence of how bad his OL has been--so you are saying that a QB in a situation worse than Cam's who has stats and physical abilities very similar to Cam's should not be given a look when you have Bryce Young at QB?  You are going with that story because you simply talked your way into a corner and now you are trying to save face.  No good GM would do what you suggest because "he sucks."  Sorry, but the facts do not support you.  But no matter what eye-opening details I provide, there are some who are going to go their Google machines to try to find some reason to support an ignorant approach to developing the QB position.  You ignored the similarities to Cam and went cherry picking.  I know what you are doing--but I am only suggesting (as I have stated before) that we bring him in as one of three approaches to resolving the QB issue. Compete with Bryce and draft a QB. Basically, I am suggesting that Jones has the potential to replace Dalton and compete with Young.  He is a battered stock that could get better in a better situation--that is human nature.  Instead, I am called a Daniel Jones lover and superfan.  That is good debate--But a real sign of mature thinking is the inability to LOGICALLY consider alternative perspectives--which is actually a characteristic of intelligence.  Just so you know, I critique and perform research in my job.  I am often amazed at how the numbers do not support my suppositions.  I learned that my impression is often wrong until I look at the data.  In this case, I have considered all the important variables and he should get a shot.  Numbers don't lie--and when you and others resort to twisted name calling directed toward the poster--it verifies my position.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by MHS831

[bythenbrs]

12 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Jones is also clearly a broken toy. We don't do well with broken toys. 

True.  Sam and Baker did not do well here but went on to better things under better coaching, circumstances or both.  The real question is, ‘why aren’t the Panthers able to get improved performance out of ‘broken toys’, similar to Minnesota and Tampa?

That is a rhetorical question.  I think we know the answer.  

[The cultural reference to Pogo dates me, I’ll admit.]

Edited 2 hours ago by bythenbrs