Build up the Dline, just like the Oline

[rayzor]

get the team right, then get your QB and make it easy for the QB to do his job. Good OL play helps immensely. Good receivers helps immensely as well. But also, you need to have a defense that can give your offense more and better opportunities and take the pressure off the need to score 40 points or throw 500 yards a game. 

if you are expecting your QB to fix everything, you're expecting too much. 

QB is only 1 of 11 on offense and then there's the whole defense. it doesn't matter who your QB is if they aren't on a team that is put together right. 

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, rayzor said:

i do agree that the focus needs to be on the front 7.

the front that we've got now would look MUCH better with Derrick Brown there. A'Shawn and Shy are good, but the three of them together would have big time changed what we have been able to do up front. I want to see them together next year.

I like Clowney and i'm thrilled we got Wonnum in there finally. I'm hoping that Wonnum and he are able to secure things on the edge going forward. Hopefully we can keep those two and add to edge through the draft. Those two together with the trio of Brown/Tuttle/Robinson was how it was supposed to be. We need to add depth to all of that, though. 

And then at linebacker, i think that tevin wallace is the future in the middle of the LB corps. i really like josey jewell as well. we do need to be strengthening the LB corps, though...especially if we switch back to 4-3 (which i really don't see happening for a while).

We need depth and we need the guys to stay healthy. i think we actually have a good start. it's just having the guys be healthy. If we add a couple FA parts and then go heavy in the draft towards the front 7, i think we'll be seeing a lot of improvement. 

I think most of those guys(Clowney, Robinson, Tuttle, etc) are likely just placeholders for upgrades either through free agency or the draft. 

It's not just that we aren't that talented in the front seven, it is that there is absolutely zero depth. It goes from bad to worse very quickly when people are getting subbed out. We have to invest a lot of resources in the next 2-3 drafts(or more) to shore that up.

When you look at this current front seven, there are not many of these guys(if any) that would be starting for more than half the teams in the NFL right now.

[SmokinwithWilly]

We can't build the dline just like the oline. We don't have the cap space to toss out massive contracts to instantly improve. It's gonna have to be done through the draft and some good FA shopping. Fixing it will take 2 years at least, even if we draft well. 

[catnip]

On the defense it depends on if Evero stays .  Do we stay 3-4 or go 4-3 ..On offense it depends on if Theilen stays and if we extend Dalton .

[kungfoodude]

Just now, rayzor said:

get the team right, then get your QB and make it easy for the QB to do his job. Good OL play helps immensely. Good receivers helps immensely as well. But also, you need to have a defense that can give your offense more and better opportunities and take the pressure off the need to score 40 points or throw 500 yards a game. 

if you are expecting your QB to fix everything, you're expecting too much. 

QB is only 1 of 11 on offense and then there's the whole defense. it doesn't matter who your QB is if they aren't on a team that is put together right. 

Yeah and if you build a capable team, you also make it a more attractive free agency destination for a top tier QB. 

Look, if a GREAT QB prospect falls in your lap in the draft, awesome. Pull the trigger. But clamoring to tank or suggesting trading up in a draft like this, that's just lightspeed insane. That's high level desperation and it will lead to more failures while simultaneously pushing this franchise even deeper into a hole.

[PappyMay]

I'd love to improve our Rush defense, but have to hope just a healthy Brown can do a huge difference in that. We save $4.5million to move on from Ashawn and $3million in moving on from Tuttle. I'm just not sure if we are going to find better players than them for the cost of their savings. Obviously drafting Mason Graham you could move on from Both after next year. Or a trade down to the teens and draft Deone Walker. But have to imagine 1 or both are back for one more ride next year.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

We can't build the dline just like the oline. We don't have the cap space to toss out massive contracts to instantly improve. It's gonna have to be done through the draft and some good FA shopping. Fixing it will take 2 years at least, even if we draft well. 

We overpaid at OG because that is a "more affordable" position to make an overpay. DE/EDGE is not a position you can afford to do that. Nor is a high level interior defensive lineman. You are 100% correct that the heavy lifting will have to be in the draft.

Every draft pick should be BPA. We don't have enough talent as it is. The goal is getting NFL caliber talent. We got more holes to plug than the Titanic.

IDGAF if we end up with a top shelf WR, CB, OL, DT, etc.....just get us some fuging talent in this draft. Don't get cute and don't get stupid.

 

[rayzor]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

I think most of those guys(Clowney, Robinson, Tuttle, etc) are likely just placeholders for upgrades either through free agency or the draft. 

It's not just that we aren't that talented in the front seven, it is that there is absolutely zero depth. It goes from bad to worse very quickly when people are getting subbed out. We have to invest a lot of resources in the next 2-3 drafts(or more) to shore that up.

When you look at this current front seven, there are not many of these guys(if any) that would be starting for more than half the teams in the NFL right now.

maybe, but i think with all of them we can get a good few years out of. Robinson is legit starting quality, imo. I like Tuttle as an NT as well. i'd put Clowney and Wonnum in the "good enough" category, but i wouldn't necessarily consider them or really Tuttle as 'the answer' especially long term. 

Depth is by far the biggest concern. it might be necessary to go D all draft. 

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, rayzor said:

maybe, but i think with all of them we can get a good few years out of. Robinson is legit starting quality, imo. I like Tuttle as an NT as well. i'd put Clowney and Wonnum in the "good enough" category, but i wouldn't necessarily consider them or really Tuttle as 'the answer' especially long term. 

Depth is by far the biggest concern. it might be necessary to go D all draft. 

Honestly both of those guys(Tuttle, Robinson) are in the lower tier of players at their position. They are more suited to being backups than anything else, IMO.

Clowney is a starting caliber NFL player but he is basically slightly above average and likely trending in the wrong direction as he ages. I am comfortable keeping him around for a couple of seasons but I do think he isn't a guy that is going to provide much value as time goes on. Wonnum is just a wait and see guy. Might prove to be starting caliber or might be JAG. Hopefully we get that answer by the end of the season.

[strato]

I've said plenty before about we have shorted the defense, all about it. But I'd like to incorporate non first round QB into the thinking. If there is one that could make sense we need to try. 

Building up the team is what allowed Jake to happen. So in favor of it. Jake was pretty 'league average' outside of his spirit and took us a long way. 

[CamWhoaaCam]

33 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

This dude is off his rocker. Every thread has to devolve into simping for Sanders/Ward. It's completely ridiculous.

Who mentioned Sanders or Ward?

 

You seem off your rocker about not drafting either QB.

 

I'm just telling you this franchise isn't going to win games until we find a franchise QB. Its really just a fact.

[Navy_football]

I think a healthy Derrick Brown solves alot of problems with this current lineup. Losing him was huge. Remember, he usually plays every defensive snap. BTW, I think they should pull back from that. A guy that big should really be at around 70-75% snaps at most. 

If they can draft a contributing rookie pass rusher or defensive tackle, and then bring in an above average pass rushing vet, I think this defense takes off - with a healthy D. Brown. Oh and lock up Horn asap. The longer they wait, the more it'll cost. Secondary is good enough - starters and depth. Inside LBs need an upgrade and/or depth injection. They aren't that far off. Injuries have hurt them a ton. 

[kungfoodude]

7 minutes ago, strato said:

I've said plenty before about we have shorted the defense, all about it. But I'd like to incorporate non first round QB into the thinking. If there is one that could make sense we need to try. 

Building up the team is what allowed Jake to happen. So in favor of it. Jake was pretty 'league average' outside of his spirit and took us a long way. 

If at some point during the draft a QB becomes BPA, by all means, get them. I just don't want us to keep floundering on these failed QB projects because this team is still awful and can't help them develop. Also....we HAVE to improve our QB evaluation process. Since Tepper took over:

Bryce Young

Matt Corral

Will Grier

I mean....wow.

[Navy_football]

4 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Who mentioned Sanders or Ward?

 

You seem off your rocker about not drafting either QB.

 

I'm just telling you this franchise isn't going to win games until we find a franchise QB. Its really just a fact.

I like Sanders too. He's absolutely fearless. And I love that. An athletic Jake Delhomme. He needs targets that can play though. I think the Panthers are getting there. Just need that smaller speed guy now. 

He'll have a Manning type career early on (lots of TDs but lots of INTs), but if they stick with him, he'll be successful after a couple of seasons. 

If he's available and our BPA, then they should absolutely take him.