15/25, 126

[frankw]

1 minute ago, Loyalty4Life said:

Were there circumstances last year that made it more difficult to judge BW?

Was it possible we didn't put him the best situation to improve and grow?

Was it worth not cutting him last year to see how he played under better circumstances?

I have never one said BW's play was excellent or that we should put all our eggs in the BW will be the franchise savior.  If this was his 2nd year with the same staff and in the same system I'd been much less argumentative. 

It's also not just about cutting bait.  It's the BW option right now vs Dalton or an UDFA or anything else we could come up with. 

No one is calling to trade for Kyle Allen.  People don't see the possibility of him improving beyond his current abilities.  Myself, Canales, and at least 4 other teams do see potential and that is all I'm arguing for.

He is currently our best chance for a starting level QB in the future.  It's just a chance.  I'm playing the probabilities with no expectations.  As long as he is improving and we don't have better options why not do everything you can for that player to succeed?

Of course there have been mitigating circumstances. It still doesn't erase or alter Bryce's overall body of work as a starting QB over 23 games and counting.

He's starting the rest of the season we've got no choice in that regardless.

I dont know what Canales sees for Bryce beyond the rest of this season. I certainly can speculate based on what I'm seeing with my own two eyes that he knows full well his offense is limited with Bryce. You do agree that is the case yes?

As far as going forward. How he finishes the season is irrelevant to me. I like Bryce Young the person. That's not the issue. We still need to draft another young QB and add a new veteran to replace Dalton. We need new life in our QB room it has to be done for the good of the fanbase we've been through nearly two full seasons of largely awful to mediocre at best QB play. This is a sports franchise that runs on results not personal feelings or catering to one player. We have to do what is best for the team.

[Loyalty4Life]

4 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

brown was not great his rookie year and deserved the criticism. Chuba was a fourth round pick; no one as was railing him. neither had legions of internet weirdos white knighting them at every opportunity.

Coincidentally since you keep attacking me personally, I was higher on both of those players than the rest of the board and was proven right. Maybe not the best examples to use here.

post people saying XL was a wasted pick. It's not hard. There's a search function. There have been ten weeks of games. was it in the first two weeks when Bryce could barely even get the snap? Did I miss a ton of people upset about him after the game in Las Vegas? Is there another forum where people spent the first 2 weeks of the season dogging him?

 

 

I don't see BW getting white knighted.  I see people beating a dead horse even when that horse shows signs of life. 

I am not and have not said BW is or will be the savior.  I have only argued that his first year had plenty of circumstances that didn't help him and definitely made it harder for him to improve.  So, all in all I give that whole year a wash.

I was hugely disappointed with his first two games this year.  He was awful.  Beyond awful.  We can never win or have any type of chance with a QB playing that badly.  No question.  He deserved to be benched and if it wasn't for the cluster of the entire operation last year, a new coach, new players and new system I wouldn't give much of an argument.  

The fact that he has begun to improve after this benching and that we don't have any other options and his small sample size with Canales as his coach makes me want to see if this could turn out like other QB's who started out badly (see previous list).

That's it.  No savior.  No statement that he is the future of our franchise. Just the best chance we currently have.  Your argument is he sucks and has no value or potential to become a quality starter.

My argument is he's shown flashes, improvement and still has upside if for nothing else than it hasn't been proven for a long enough period of time.  If he plays like this in year 7, no one is even calling.

What is the potential upside?

What is the potential downside?

We are not a good team.  We can't afford to give up on any player too soon especially a high draft pick with a new coach and where his rookie year was a cluster in numerous areas outside of his control that impacted his development.

He may very well be exactly the player you think he is but he might not be.  It's possible he was screwed up by the year of Frank.  Why not try to turn him into a success story?  Tons to gain.  Not much to lose.

 

[Loyalty4Life]

35 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Do think Bryce can get us to a playoff game and win multiple times?   

No.  Not a chance with his current play.

Do I think he could improve to become that.  Yes.  Because the NFL is hard and dozens of other Qb's have some back from starting just as bad and we've got nothing to lose by trying.

[electro's horse]

Just now, Loyalty4Life said:

I don't see BW getting white knighted.  I see people beating a dead horse even when that horse shows signs of life.

My argument is he's shown flashes, improvement and still has upside if for nothing else than it hasn't been proven for a long enough period of time.  If he plays like this in year 7, no one is even calling.

What is the potential upside?

What is the potential downside?

We are not a good team.  We can't afford to give up on any player too soon especially a high draft pick with a new coach and where his rookie year was a cluster in numerous areas outside of his control that impacted his development.

He may very well be exactly the player you think he is but he might not be.  It's possible he was screwed up by the year of Frank.  Why not try to turn him into a success story?  Tons to gain.  Not much to lose.

 

is the horse dead or alive? manage your metaphors please.

no one called this year. the only thing about teams calling was one unsourced tweet from diana russini. there was never any confirmation, any names of teams, nothing. if she got that from anyone, it was likely from the same people paying you to post about bryce. your dignity is worth more than 42k pre tax, buddy.

potential upside: none. he's not growing.

potential downside: injures other players with his terrible play

the offense under bryce is worse statistically than it was last year. or so close it doesn't matter. This is who he is. you are weaving an entire web of bullshit for a guy who's shown across multiple coaching staffs and multiple situations his ceiling about 170 yards a game, 1 td, 1 int, 5 ypa.

toxic optimism is not a positive trait, or something you should be proud of.

[electro's horse]

Also L4L personal challenge: respond succinctly without rhetorical questions. 

You write like a ninth grader trying to hit the word minimum. 

[BIGH2001]

The best thing I can say about Bryce the last 3 games is he is taking care of the ball better than he was and hasn’t done anything to lose the last 2. Not worthy of a #1 pick but his ceiling is somewhere between career backup and Alex smith. 

[ProcessBlue2]

Dalton is not the long term answer but fact is he would have won last week, and this week would have been a 2 TD+ win. Dalton is a back up at best anymore so that's not saying much. The defense won the game with some assistance from Chuba Hubbard. (or vice versa).

Edited Monday at 12:42 AM by ProcessBlue2

[Loyalty4Life]

 

Ian Rapoport, Jay Glazer, Dianna Russini.

https://thespun.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/report-4-nfl-teams-tried-to-trade-for-bryce-young

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5892177/2024/11/02/nfl-trade-deadline-teams-players/

https://x.com/awfulannouncing/status/1837890344198832222

I realize the team can lie but add Dave Canales and Dan Morgan.

[Loyalty4Life]

59 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

is the horse dead or alive? manage your metaphors please.

no one called this year. the only thing about teams calling was one unsourced tweet from diana russini. there was never any confirmation, any names of teams, nothing. if she got that from anyone, it was likely from the same people paying you to post about bryce. your dignity is worth more than 42k pre tax, buddy.

potential upside: none. he's not growing.

potential downside: injures other players with his terrible play

the offense under bryce is worse statistically than it was last year. or so close it doesn't matter. This is who he is. you are weaving an entire web of bullshit for a guy who's shown across multiple coaching staffs and multiple situations his ceiling about 170 yards a game, 1 td, 1 int, 5 ypa.

toxic optimism is not a positive trait, or something you should be proud of.

If you don't want me to write a novel then don't make me dispute things that easily found.  I just posted the reputable sources who said that teams have called about Bryce.

I won't go out of my way to explain why his play isn't to any degree that other players are worried for their safety outside of the NFL norm.  It would actually be difficult to do that with how little we throw and most of the throws are on the conservative side.  Slants, crossing routes over the top, outs, etc  That is just gaslighting and grasping at straws.

 

My optimism isn't toxic.  It's realistic. It's lets take the chance to find out.  That is why he is starting games for us.  That is why the Panthers continue to say he is in their future plans although that plan can change quickly.  I'm under no illusion. This entire plan to start Bryce could only be to try to up his trade value from a 4th or 5th rounder to a 3rd.  Very possible and a good idea regardless, in case he doesn't improve.  If we draft a qb and trade Bryce after this year I've got no issue with that.  A full year with Canales is the least I'd expect to really evaluate him and give him a chance with a better system, staff, surrounding players, etc.

Hell, I don't sell stock when it's down especially if there is a probability of it improving or if I can do things to improve it's value.  If Bryce ends up sinking or swims my argument is still the same. 

[TLGPanthersFan]

1 hour ago, Loyalty4Life said:

No.  Not a chance with his current play.

Do I think he could improve to become that.  Yes.  Because the NFL is hard and dozens of other Qb's have some back from starting just as bad and we've got nothing to lose by trying.

Is he gonna magically grow 5 inches and be able to throw downfield consistently. That has already been answered. No! 

[Loyalty4Life]

6 minutes ago, TLGPanthersFan said:

Is he gonna magically grow 5 inches and be able to throw downfield consistently. That has already been answered. No! 

I don't like or put too much stock in answers with excessively different variables.  

 

[mrcompletely11]

1 hour ago, Loyalty4Life said:

 

Ian Rapoport, Jay Glazer, Dianna Russini.

https://thespun.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/report-4-nfl-teams-tried-to-trade-for-bryce-young

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5892177/2024/11/02/nfl-trade-deadline-teams-players/

https://x.com/awfulannouncing/status/1837890344198832222

I realize the team can lie but add Dave Canales and Dan Morgan.

lol

[mrcompletely11]

1 hour ago, Loyalty4Life said:

No.  Not a chance with his current play.

Do I think he could improve to become that.  Yes.  Because the NFL is hard and dozens of other Qb's have some back from starting just as bad and we've got nothing to lose by trying.

dozens of other qbs?  please list these dozens that have started as bad as bryce but turned it around

[Loyalty4Life]

6 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

dozens of other qbs?  please list these dozens that have started as bad as bryce but turned it around

1985:

• Starts: 5
• Record: 1-4
• Passing: 935 yards
• Completion %: 52.2%
• Touchdowns: 8
• Interceptions: 7

1986:

• Starts: 14
• Record: 2-12
• Passing: 2,282 yards
• Completion %: 53.7%
• Touchdowns: 8
• Interceptions: 13

Combined two-year totals:

• Record: 3-16
• Passing: 3,217 yards
• Touchdowns: 16
• Interceptions: 20
• Passer Rating: 63.1

This HOF player went on to be traded after his second year and went on to win multiple super bowls.