Cowboys Trade for Jonathan Mingo

[frankw]

37 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Yeah. Great athlete. Not an NFL wide receiver. Honestly think he'd be better on defense. In the future, carolina needs to make sure receiver prospects actually have ball skills. How does he track the ball, does he catch with his hands, does he highpoint balls, does he catch low passes, does he catch in traffic? Maybe start there. Then field awareness and route running. All of that is infinitely more important than size and 40 time.

This is why he was drafted. And yes just like Scott Fitterer Dan Morgan also values RAS scores.

Here's another one for you.

[ForJimmy]

10 minutes ago, frankw said:

This is why he was drafted. And yes just like Scott Fitterer Dan Morgan also values RAS scores.

Here's another one for you.

One was pick 39 vs pick 72. Wallace has actually showed some promise as well getting over 10 tackles in each of his first couple starts. Also Brugler was high on him who I have more faith in than most scouts. You can’t ignore athletic ability as it should be part of the equation and I’m good with gambling on mid to late picks especially ones that were originally going to sit a year like Wallace was before Shaq went down. 
 

https://x.com/Marcus_Mosher/status/1778057337275555970

 

[07579394]

Will they bring back TMJ?

[frankw]

15 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

One was pick 39 vs pick 72. Wallace has actually showed some promise as well getting over 10 tackles in each of his first couple starts. Also Brugler was high on him who I have more faith in than most scouts. You can’t ignore athletic ability as it should be part of the equation and I’m good with gambling on mid to late picks especially ones that were originally going to sit a year like Wallace was before Shaq went down. 
 

https://x.com/Marcus_Mosher/status/1778057337275555970

 

Not comparing the players just the use of analytics which has been and remains a key part of the structure of our approach in the draft since David Tepper became owner.

All I'm saying is going forward we just don't know if this team will stop drafting Jonathan Mingo type prospects because the scouts are largely the same and the approach largely remains the same. Morgan has said he seeks players with a certain mentality (I refuse to type the phrase because this team has gotten taken to the woodshed too many times this season so it falls on deaf ears now) that's really the only key difference I can see as of right now. Next years draft will tell us what we need to know.

[strato]

I don't see the Wallace speed ratings on the field. Not once have my eyes been drawn to him from any suddenness or explosiveness. Kind of like looking for a flash out of Bryce Young last year.

I am aware that he is a rookie and his recognition and processing will be slower but if you don't close ground once you have finished recognizing and processing I worry about it.

4 minutes ago, frankw said:

the scouts are largely the same and the approach largely remains the same. 

Now this, I think, disregards the new offensive staff's experience with WRs and their influence on who gets added. It isn't the old staff people and they are the offensive deciders, Morgan shouldn't be exerting his will over people whose focus has always been offensive football, and I don't think he will try to do that. 

We'll see, but the two we added this year don't look like busts.

Edited November 6 by strato

[Khyber53]

We needed the room, be prepared for a lot of deck clearing over the coming weeks. Trade deadline has passed but releases can happen for folks we decide won't be needed for the rebuild.

 

[ForJimmy]

35 minutes ago, frankw said:

Not comparing the players just the use of analytics which has been and remains a key part of the structure of our approach in the draft since David Tepper became owner.

All I'm saying is going forward we just don't know if this team will stop drafting Jonathan Mingo type prospects because the scouts are largely the same and the approach largely remains the same. Morgan has said he seeks players with a certain mentality (I refuse to type the phrase because this team has gotten taken to the woodshed too many times this season so it falls on deaf ears now) that's really the only key difference I can see as of right now. Next years draft will tell us what we need to know.

They certainly didn’t use the RAS score when trading up for Bryce. All teams are going to use it to a degree. It helps judge where a player’s ceiling could be. You just can’t ignore other factors too, especially important ones like film/game tape. 

[frankw]

34 minutes ago, strato said:

I don't see the Wallace speed ratings on the field. Not once have my eyes been drawn to him from any suddenness or explosiveness. Kind of like looking for a flash out of Bryce Young last year.

I am aware that he is a rookie and his recognition and processing will be slower but if you don't close ground once you have finished recognizing and processing I worry about it.

Now this, I think, disregards the new offensive staff's experience with WRs and their influence on who gets added. It isn't the old staff people and they are the offensive deciders, Morgan shouldn't be exerting his will over people whose focus has always been offensive football, and I don't think he will try to do that. 

We'll see, but the two we added this year don't look like busts.

Wallace is still raw won't really know anything until at least next season.

I'm going to be brutally honest and say other than Coker who seems to be developing by sheer determination and a chip on his shoulder for going undrafted I've seen very little development from the wide receivers this season. That's one of my biggest issues with Canales and his staff. Really need to see some strong bright spots for the second half of the season.

4 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

They certainly didn’t use the RAS score when trading up for Bryce. All teams are going to use it to a degree. It helps judge where a player’s ceiling could be. You just can’t ignore other factors too, especially important ones like film/game tape. 

All we know for certain on the subject that is the Young vs Stroud saga is that Tepper pushed for Bryce he told us even well before the draft he spoke to Bryce and informed him he wanted him to be a Panther.

Like I said. We have only a small sample size by which to judge Morgan's tendencies in the draft. Have to wait until next year for more answers. But he needs multiple homerun picks in the next two drafts if he's going to be successful here. Even shitty Marty Hurney had some of those.

[ForJimmy]

14 minutes ago, frankw said:

Wallace is still raw won't really know anything until at least next season.

I'm going to be brutally honest and say other than Coker who seems to be developing by sheer determination and a chip on his shoulder for going undrafted I've seen very little development from the wide receivers this season. That's one of my biggest issues with Canales and his staff. Really need to see some strong bright spots for the second half of the season.

All we know for certain on the subject that is the Young vs Stroud saga is that Tepper pushed for Bryce he told us even well before the draft he spoke to Bryce and informed him he wanted him to be a Panther.

Like I said. We have only a small sample size by which to judge Morgan's tendencies in the draft. Have to wait until next year for more answers. But he needs multiple homerun picks in the next two drafts if he's going to be successful here. Even shitty Marty Hurney had some of those.

XL has a TD in 3 of his last 4 games. He actually has improved quite a bit as a blocker as well. Aside from him and Coker (who you said is developing) that leaves Mingo who we just shipped off. The other WRs are veterans. JT is also starting to get comfortable in the offense, but his blocking still needs work. 
Yeah Tepper pushed for Young but you were hinting at him being a big RAS guy. 

I do agree though in we absolutely have to hit on these next few drafts. Our top pick this year HAS to be a franchise cornerstone if we want to get out of this mess…

[frankw]

10 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

XL has a TD in 3 of his last 4 games. He actually has improved quite a bit as a blocker as well. Aside from him and Coker (who you said is developing) that leaves Mingo who we just shipped off. The other WRs are veterans. JT is also starting to get comfortable in the offense, but his blocking still needs work. 
Yeah Tepper pushed for Young but you were hinting at him being a big RAS guy. 

I do agree though in we absolutely have to hit on these next few drafts. Our top pick this year HAS to be a franchise cornerstone if we want to get out of this mess…

Let me first say I like XL the player and his potential a lot. But he is definitively hot and cold at times. That's not to say he won't improve. That's just the current grade.

We hired Canales to fix Bryce Young and develop the roster in what was assuredly going to be a lost season. Bryce Young is still statistically bottom 3 in the league and we've already shipped off two wide receivers. There's not much to rejoice over right now on the development front that's just an honest assessment.

I don't see any point in hammering on one another over Bryce Young. I never said Tepper or any of the staff were analytics over everything I said it's been a key aspect in the process for the most part and it has.

Tepper fell for Bryce Young the same way he fell for Matt Rhule. The guy has absolutely no clue what he's doing and is impulsive. That is why our franchise is in shambles.

[FattyFatFat]

6 hours ago, jayboogieman said:

Yep, but it's in the pre production stage. Hopefully, it never makes it to actual filming.

Kill it with fire 

[strato]

1 hour ago, frankw said:

Let me first say I like XL the player and his potential a lot. But he is definitively hot and cold at times. That's not to say he won't improve. That's just the current grade.

We hired Canales to fix Bryce Young and develop the roster in what was assuredly going to be a lost season. Bryce Young is still statistically bottom 3 in the league and we've already shipped off two wide receivers. There's not much to rejoice over right now on the development front that's just an honest assessment.

I don't see any point in hammering on one another over Bryce Young. I never said Tepper or any of the staff were analytics over everything I said it's been a key aspect in the process for the most part and it has.

Tepper fell for Bryce Young the same way he fell for Matt Rhule. The guy has absolutely no clue what he's doing and is impulsive. That is why our franchise is in shambles.

We were in lock step on Young. I never thought he had the goods and a 'fix' will only get him somewhere close to where he is now. I'd say he still has a little ceiling left but not too much, he is very close to it.

The thing about TMJ/Mingo not developing, people have been dogging them as wasted picks. Is he supposed to develop wasted picks too? 

It isn't a real consistent narrative. Kind of like trap logic. Hmm, give him an undoable job and then fire him for not doing it. 

[frankw]

1 hour ago, strato said:

We were in lock step on Young. I never thought he had the goods and a 'fix' will only get him somewhere close to where he is now. I'd say he still has a little ceiling left but not too much, he is very close to it.

The thing about TMJ/Mingo not developing, people have been dogging them as wasted picks. Is he supposed to develop wasted picks too? 

It isn't a real consistent narrative. Kind of like trap logic. Hmm, give him an undoable job and then fire him for not doing it. 

On Bryce I just don't know. Some people think they're already sold he's out regardless of the remaining games. But I think the powers that be are still clinging to hope they can salvage him and the whole trade. The way they're acting like Andy Dalton basically had his thumb amputated instead of it just being a sprain confirms such at least for me.

TMJ was here through 3 head coaches I don't include him in that when assessing development. He was a lost cause already.

I don't think most rational people think firing Canales after one season is going to solve our problems. Myself included.

At the same time this franchise is never going to emerge from cellar/laughingstock status without some semblance of standards. Canales has been part of the problems that have ailed this team. And the truth of the matter is Dave Canales barely outmaneuvered fired coach Dennis Allen in a game that came down to a bobbled pass on 4th down.

We need to see some fight in this team down the final stretch people here are used to losing anyways. Just go down swinging. That's all I'm expecting to see. These blowout losses like the ones against Chicago and Washington are not acceptable.

Edited November 6 by frankw

[TheSpecialJuan]

https://x.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1853939773599027342?s=46&t=xeIgh_-Vr2aKxBkBJdfnKA