Bryce Young QB School

[JawnyBlaze]

And then after the first pick, of course I want defense for the rest of the draft. 

[MHS831]

I have been living on the edge this week--and I put out on another thread or created one--maybe in always current "2023 Draft" board/room, that we should consider trading back even if Cam Ward is there.  I am not sold on his entire body of work--and wonder if he is a system QB (I hate saying that) or if he is finally putting it all together. Here is what I know---(repeating myself):  The Giants are down on Daniel Jones after giving him a huge deal after the 2022 season, one where he had a pretty good supporting cast.  In 2023 he had a horrible OL and struggled.  His weapons?  Not good.  In 2024, he has NO running game behind him, there have been a few key injuries to the OL...For the past 2 years, this pocket passer has been pressured a lot--most in the league (according to one article--I read several and did not save links---this is from memory).  THIS SHOCKED ME:   Throughout his career, he is ranked #7 when throwing from a clean pocket.  He is 6' 5" and 230--I imagine about 8 inches taller and 50 lbs heavier than Bryce and he is probably more mobile that Bryce.  We have a good OL, and could probably upgrade at C and maybe T.  With Canales teaching the 2.4 seconds rule, he could be better in a different setting. The Giants are talking about benching him.  Daboll is desperate and on the hottest of hot seats---they can't really cut him now--cap hell.  However, If we acquired him, we'd only owe his remaining salary, not his signing bonus, and that figure would be about $60m for 2 seasons.  The Giants would love getting out of that and might even absorb some costs.  Jones gets a strong running game, awesome OL, and if we draft a WR early, XL, Thielen, Coker, Moore, and a stud rookie would be pretty impressive.  If Sanders (TE) keeps developing and Tremble can stay healthy, TE is better than it has been for a while.   I think Jones, at age 29, would be ready to step in and make things happen--a Darnold/Mayfield story. 

Jones contract is good through 2026, so that gives you time to evaluate him.  In the draft, trade down, add a second rounder.  Draft an edge, then a WR with one of the round 2 picks and then get a developmental QB (even if you have to trade back up) like Nussmieir, Rourke, Allar, or someone similar to Jones to develop for two seasons.  In round three, get a DT (Morgan has drafted well later in the draft, so we could add another ILB.  On defense, we get Wonnum back and Brown returns.  Wallace is a year older, and we added a DT.   Horn and Jackson are solid CBs, Smith-Wade??? not sure.  So we are not far off.

If we draft Ward, it is another high risk high reward situation.  It does not give us that added second rounder or the ability to draft that edge we need so badly.  Jones' stock is down, but if you do your homework, you understand that he needs protection and weapons, perhaps more than most QBs.  This year, defenses are not worried about Tracy and the other RB who are each averaging under 50 yards per game.  Saquan Barkely is gone.  Here, he has a stocked garage at RB, developing weapons at WR and TE, and a good OL.  When that happened in the past (albeit on a lesser scale) Jones was the #7 ranked passer from the pocket--and he has mobility and speed at 6'5".  He is currently 28. 

Just sayin.  Now if someone responds by saying "Jones sucks!" It means you did not read this.  Jones comes back to his hometown.  Its a damn Disney movie!

Edited 3 hours ago by MHS831

[LinvilleGorge]

Every highly drafted QB is high risk, high reward. No way around it. There's no such thing as a sure thing in the draft and that's especially true at the QB position. It's just that when you trade a king's ransom for the pick it becomes absurdly high risk with the same potential reward. You've vastly skewed the downside of the equation.

[PNW_PantherMan]

41 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Every highly drafted QB is high risk, high reward. No way around it. There's no such thing as a sure thing in the draft and that's especially true at the QB position. It's just that when you trade a king's ransom for the pick it becomes absurdly high risk with the same potential reward. You've vastly skewed the downside of the equation.

Taking on significant additional risk with no additional return.  In the investment world, they call that stupid.

[Aussie Tank]

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

I have been living on the edge this week--and I put out on another thread or created one--maybe in always current "2023 Draft" board/room, that we should consider trading back even if Cam Ward is there.  I am not sold on his entire body of work--and wonder if he is a system QB (I hate saying that) or if he is finally putting it all together. Here is what I know---(repeating myself):  The Giants are down on Daniel Jones after giving him a huge deal after the 2022 season, one where he had a pretty good supporting cast.  In 2023 he had a horrible OL and struggled.  His weapons?  Not good.  In 2024, he has NO running game behind him, there have been a few key injuries to the OL...For the past 2 years, this pocket passer has been pressured a lot--most in the league (according to one article--I read several and did not save links---this is from memory).  THIS SHOCKED ME:   Throughout his career, he is ranked #7 when throwing from a clean pocket.  He is 6' 5" and 230--I imagine about 8 inches taller and 50 lbs heavier than Bryce and he is probably more mobile that Bryce.  We have a good OL, and could probably upgrade at C and maybe T.  With Canales teaching the 2.4 seconds rule, he could be better in a different setting. The Giants are talking about benching him.  Daboll is desperate and on the hottest of hot seats---they can't really cut him now--cap hell.  However, If we acquired him, we'd only owe his remaining salary, not his signing bonus, and that figure would be about $60m for 2 seasons.  The Giants would love getting out of that and might even absorb some costs.  Jones gets a strong running game, awesome OL, and if we draft a WR early, XL, Thielen, Coker, Moore, and a stud rookie would be pretty impressive.  If Sanders (TE) keeps developing and Tremble can stay healthy, TE is better than it has been for a while.   I think Jones, at age 29, would be ready to step in and make things happen--a Darnold/Mayfield story. 

Jones contract is good through 2026, so that gives you time to evaluate him.  In the draft, trade down, add a second rounder.  Draft an edge, then a WR with one of the round 2 picks and then get a developmental QB (even if you have to trade back up) like Nussmieir, Rourke, Allar, or someone similar to Jones to develop for two seasons.  In round three, get a DT (Morgan has drafted well later in the draft, so we could add another ILB.  On defense, we get Wonnum back and Brown returns.  Wallace is a year older, and we added a DT.   Horn and Jackson are solid CBs, Smith-Wade??? not sure.  So we are not far off.

If we draft Ward, it is another high risk high reward situation.  It does not give us that added second rounder or the ability to draft that edge we need so badly.  Jones' stock is down, but if you do your homework, you understand that he needs protection and weapons, perhaps more than most QBs.  This year, defenses are not worried about Tracy and the other RB who are each averaging under 50 yards per game.  Saquan Barkely is gone.  Here, he has a stocked garage at RB, developing weapons at WR and TE, and a good OL.  When that happened in the past (albeit on a lesser scale) Jones was the #7 ranked passer from the pocket--and he has mobility and speed at 6'5".  He is currently 28. 

Just sayin.  Now if someone responds by saying "Jones sucks!" It means you did not read this.  Jones comes back to his hometown.  Its a damn Disney movie!

Well it looks like we’re trying to build our team like the lions did after the Chuba deal. The next step is to trade for an out of favour high draft pick QB that has had a good season but their team wants to get out of their bloated contract. Jones fits the bill and maybe Lawrence 

[mrcompletely11]

8 minutes ago, Aussie Tank said:

Well it looks like we’re trying to build our team like the lions did after the Chuba deal. The next step is to trade for an out of favour high draft pick QB that has had a good season but their team wants to get out of their bloated contract. Jones fits the bill and maybe Lawrence 

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but the Jags are not trading Lawrence under any scenario and I swear to Buddha if we trade for Daniel Jones and his contract I will delete my account and cease to ever follow this dog poo of a franchise

[Aussie Tank]

25 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but the Jags are not trading Lawrence under any scenario and I swear to Buddha if we trade for Daniel Jones and his contract I will delete my account and cease to ever follow this dog poo of a franchise

I was a little about Lawrence I know he’s not going anywhere. But buckle up sunshine if it’s not Bryce next year I can very much see Tepper trying to find his Goff 

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, Aussie Tank said:

I was a little about Lawrence I know he’s not going anywhere. But buckle up sunshine if it’s not Bryce next year I can very much see Tepper trying to find his Goff 

A)its not going to be bryce next year

B)there is no way in hell this franchise trades again for a guy like Jones

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, Aussie Tank said:

Well it looks like we’re trying to build our team like the lions did after the Chuba deal. The next step is to trade for an out of favour high draft pick QB that has had a good season but their team wants to get out of their bloated contract. Jones fits the bill and maybe Lawrence 

Just an option that people aren't considering.  To defend Jones, he has never really had a good situation, and you and I know that the situation is critically important for any QB.  Jones had a good season--I do not look at it that way--I look at his skill set, size, and what he has demonstrated when the situation was good--and he has excelled in that situation, based on the data I reviewed.  Goff was not good in LA and they wanted to get rid of him---Detroit got a ton for Stafford and may have the better QB.  Darnold struggled in two situations and sat in SF, but he has weapons and a good defense in Minnesota, and he is doing well.  Mayfield found a home in Tampa that is matched with his style of play.  Here, a player like Jones who has never had the four ingredients a successful QB needs:  OL, WRs, Running game, and TEs.  He has had 2 of 4 most of the time.  Drafting Ward or Sanders is risky because you don't address Edge unless you spend $30m in free agency--and who wants to come to Carolina?  Jones needs new scenery and here, he has the 4 ingredients--and if the defense is rebuilt--he will be good.  You pay him the same you would an elite Edge in free agency, and you can turn the page in 2 years if that is the decision.  Here, Jones has a top 10 OL, a stout running game, solid young WRs (that will need a veteran QB), and a developing TE.  In addition, this move back in the draft allows you to draft a QB who is not pressured to succeed right away--like so many busts have.  Allar, for example, is 20--in two years under Jones, he would be 23 and developed.  Just a thought.  Is there any answer that is right?  Nope.  I just see in Jones what others have seen in skilled QBs in bad situations.  Trade back, get your edge, sign Jones, draft a WR and QB on day 2.  To me, it is less risky than rolling the dice again on an early round QB who must sink or swim from day 1.  But, yeah, there is a chance this does not work.  I think it would be the smart move. 

 

[Aussie Tank]

8 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Just an option that people aren't considering.  To defend Jones, he has never really had a good situation, and you and I know that the situation is critically important for any QB.  Jones had a good season--I do not look at it that way--I look at his skill set, size, and what he has demonstrated when the situation was good--and he has excelled in that situation, based on the data I reviewed.  Goff was not good in LA and they wanted to get rid of him---Detroit got a ton for Stafford and may have the better QB.  Darnold struggled in two situations and sat in SF, but he has weapons and a good defense in Minnesota, and he is doing well.  Mayfield found a home in Tampa that is matched with his style of play.  Here, a player like Jones who has never had the four ingredients a successful QB needs:  OL, WRs, Running game, and TEs.  He has had 2 of 4 most of the time.  Drafting Ward or Sanders is risky because you don't address Edge unless you spend $30m in free agency--and who wants to come to Carolina?  Jones needs new scenery and here, he has the 4 ingredients--and if the defense is rebuilt--he will be good.  You pay him the same you would an elite Edge in free agency, and you can turn the page in 2 years if that is the decision.  Here, Jones has a top 10 OL, a stout running game, solid young WRs (that will need a veteran QB), and a developing TE.  In addition, this move back in the draft allows you to draft a QB who is not pressured to succeed right away--like so many busts have.  Allar, for example, is 20--in two years under Jones, he would be 23 and developed.  Just a thought.  Is there any answer that is right?  Nope.  I just see in Jones what others have seen in skilled QBs in bad situations.  Trade back, get your edge, sign Jones, draft a WR and QB on day 2.  To me, it is less risky than rolling the dice again on an early round QB who must sink or swim from day 1.  But, yeah, there is a chance this does not work.  I think it would be the smart move. 

 

Mate I’m all for going the veteran QB route that’s the model that has worked where Canales has been. Plus we need way to many pieces on Defense