How to sign your core group and take advantage of the uncapped year

[carolinanimal]

like I said in my post I had not read that. In fact another article I did read said it would not apply after 2012. But after reading the CBA agreement posted on NFL.com you are correct the base salary can't rise more than 30% from year to year and it doesn't matter how long the contract is. Sorry for disputing it, apparently I get short with folks after 2 AM. Need to remember that in the future.

But to the question could we lock up Kalil to a longterm deal without paying 24 million up front? Lets scrap the old proposal since you are right the base salaries wouldn't work. We could renegotiate but it would have to be creative. For example using the Charlotte Observer rate of 6 million per year we could give him a shorter extension of 3 years for 18 million so he is here for 4 years total. We could guarantee perhaps a 10 million signing bonus and another 5 being a roster bonus in 2012. Salaries would be based on 2010 which is $650,000 in 2010, would be using the 30% increase each year- $861.900 in 2011 ( the first year of the extension), 1.12 million in 2012, and 1.45 million in 2013. So the three year base salary for the extension would be 4,081900. (the salary numbers for the Observer don't add up correctly) Adding that together you get 15 million in signing bonus and roster bonus of which 10 is guaranteed another 4 million in salary for a total of 19 and you still can use bonuses likely to be earned like probowl appearances since he was in the probowl in 2009. If you added 1.5 million per year you could add another 4.5 million to the deal for a total of 23.5 million without breaking the bank or shelling out the whole amount up front. So you could give him a 3 year deal for almost 24 million for only 10 million guaranteed, follow the 30% rule, and make it palatable to everyone.

Still very palatable and less than 50% would have to be guaranteed up front.

where do you work at? :ee:

[Delhommey]

I don't think it's that easy. From what I've seen the only way around it is a signing bonus, and that seems to hold true of all the extensions I've seen so far.

What's more you don't want to start putting things in the future when you don't know what that will be. That would be why the Skins are moving everything into signing bonus in this year.

[bleys]

fell asleep around 1-2am.. love the discussion, something new and exciting, IMO, other than the lame BR poo...

but, am no master of the cap, so I'm just now trying to keep up... lol

seems it would be great to stash some resignings in a year where we could dump the cap hit.. however it would work.. if it's even possible.. just a broad and general statement.

[panthers55]

Now that we're somewhat near reality, I'll come back to this question: What young core players have the Redskins signed taking advantage of this uncapped year?

Answer my question posted above, would the 30% apply to contracts entered into in 2010. We already discussed that your question is a red herring. It doesn't matter who has signed who but whether we could use the uncapped year to sign some of our guys and avoid a huge cap hit down the road. Could we use Allen's strategy to make the signing bonus apply this year??

[panthers55]

I don't think it's that easy. From what I've seen the only way around it is a signing bonus, and that seems to hold true of all the extensions I've seen so far.

What's more you don't want to start putting things in the future when you don't know what that will be. That would be why the Skins are moving everything into signing bonus in this year.

Doesn't my example cover the criteria?

And the reality is that unless you do something to try and lock up guys like Kalil or Williams or Davis this year, you absolutely won't be able to lock them up next year all at the same time. You would have to shell out 50 million or more plus none of it would count this year when you would want as much to apply as possible. Who of those guys do we want to lose??? And if we know we are going to, we should be looking at getting something for them this year even if devalued. Didn't we learn anything from Peppers??

[Delhommey]

When another team somehow locks up their young talent (Steve Smith, Nick Mangold, etc), then I will look at this as a legit option that our team should take. Until then, I don't think it works that way.

[panthers55]

When another team somehow locks up their young talent (Steve Smith, Nick Mangold, etc), then I will look at this as a legit option that our team should take. Until then, I don't think it works that way.

Like I said before I am no capologist or attorney so I can surely be wrong but from what I read in the agreement and I admit to not reading all 299 pages closely, it seems we could do it if we were willing to spend some signing bonus money.

Do you agree that by putting these things off we are dooming ourselves to not being able to sign all of these guys next year?

[Delhommey]

I think it's pretty early to say we're not doing anything. Especially seeing as no other team is either.

[carolinanimal]

i think most teams are waiting until after the draft.

[panthers55]

I think it's pretty early to say we're not doing anything. Especially seeing as no other team is either.

True. This thread is speculation on what we could do other than wait.

[Sandy Claws]

Could we use Allen's strategy to make the signing bonus apply this year??

As I said, it will work as he is doing it with veterans. It's not going to work for players coming off rookie contracts who had a low base salary in 2009. That's when the big signing bonuses will be required.

[carolinanimal]

True. This thread is speculation on what we could do other than wait.

we better do something! have you seen the contracts coming up in the next 2 years!!!:eek: almost all of our young core!

[panthers55]

As I said, it will work as he is doing it with veterans. It's not going to work for players coming off rookie contracts who had a low base salary in 2009. That's when the big signing bonuses will be required.

I will ask you the same question. Davis for example has a RFA. We we sign him to a contract in 2010 do we have to use the 30% rule or not? From the language I quoted it sounds like it addressed a decrease in an uncapped year and an increase in a capped year but not a new contract negotiated in an uncapped year. read the section I quoted on the 30% rule and tell me how it reads to you.

Plus we don't have to pay all the signing bonuses up front. Roster bonuses are treated like signing bonuses and not part of the base salary, but apply in the year they are paid. it wouldn't help the cap but it would keep all the guaranteed money from being due all at once.

[Sandy Claws]

Like I said before I am no capologist or attorney so I can surely be wrong but from what I read in the agreement and I admit to not reading all 299 pages closely, it seems we could do it if we were willing to spend some signing bonus money.

Do you agree that by putting these things off we are dooming ourselves to not being able to sign all of these guys next year?

The key is how much signing bonus money. Look at Beason. How long of a deal do you want? 5 years? Let's start with that. He made 1.1 million for a base last year so he can get increases of 330k/year. That means in 2010, he'll get 1.43 million, 2011 = 1.76 million, 2012 = 2.09 million, 2013 =2.42 million and 2014 = 2.75 million for a total contracted base salary of 10.45 million. I consider Beason to be one of the top LBs in the league now. That would put is total salary in the 9-10 million range. There are some paid more than that now. So basically, just to get him up with the compensation NOW, we need a 35 million plus signing bonus. If I'm his agent, I'll want to project increases in salaries and ask for even more. Now we have Beason signed. How much do you think we need to sign Kalil?