How to sign your core group and take advantage of the uncapped year

[panthers55]

The. Redskins. Did. Not. Give. Haynesworth. And. Hall. Anything. New. They. Reworked. Their. Existing. Contracts. Of. Which. They. Were. Both. In. Their. Second. Year. Of.

Haynesworth. And. Hall. Were. Not. Extended. For. Any. Additional. Years.

They. restructured. the contracts. which. is.absolutely. the. same. as giving. them. new. contracts. The. 30%. rule. applied. and they. were. able. to. rework. the . deal. The. implications. are. clear. for. us. The. point. is. they. used. the. cap. to. their. advantage. and. we. could. as. well. Why. does. that. seem. so. hard. to to grasp?? The. same. principles. apply. whether. you. restructure. or. extend.

[Delhommey]

Please explain to us all how we can extend Ryan Kalil without giving him $25 million in guaranteed money.

[panthers55]

Maybe I am wrong... If so please educate me.

Who has the Jets, Bears, Dolphins, and redskins given contract extensions to? And what are the details of these extensions??

The point is that we could extend our core players by extending their contracts. This is the same thing essentially as adding new players through a trade or restructuring contracts. Because it is all about teams being willing to spend money and pay upfront signing bonuses. When Marshall was traded to Miami they took his current salary and extended it 4 years and gave him something like 52 million with 24 million upfront.. When Boldin went to the Ravens they gave him a 3 year 25 million extension. The redskins was a restructuring which is the same as renegotiating his salary. Obviously the bears brought in several guys and spent 10s of millions in signing bonuses. And that is off the top of my head.

It must be me, I thought the logic here was elementary and obvious yet ai seem to be the only one that gets it???????

[Delhommey]

So you're complaining that we're not using this wonderful loophole to lock up our young talent that no NFL GM including Bruce Allen has yet to use to lock up their young talent.

Damn you Hurney! DAMN YOU!!!!

[Udogg]

But aren't your assumptions on the owners/players redoing things like they were? It was my understanding that the owners want to blow the old collective bargaining agreement up?

[panthers55]

Please explain to us all how we can extend Ryan Kalil without giving him $25 million in guaranteed money.

The franchise tag for OL is 8 million with centers getting around 5 or 6 per year. So you give him a sweetheart of a deal. You offer him a signing bonus of 14 million with a small salary of 650,000 in 2011 which satisfies the 30% rule and larger salaries of let say 5 million in 2012, 6 million in 2013, 8 million in 2014, and a roster bonus of 10 million in 2015 and a salary of 5 million in 2016. That comes out to a 6 year 48 million dollar contract or around 8 million per year. He know he gets the 14 and will probably see another 19 million over the next 3 years for a payout of 33 million for 4 year which again puts him in the 8 million range. if he doesn't stay at an all pro level we can let him go with little cap since we make all of that hit this year with a voidable clause. If he does then we will have gotten a bargain which will fit under the cap now and in the future.

Anyone else???

[Delhommey]

His logic is greater than all 32 FO's combined apparently.

[panthers55]

So you're complaining that we're not using this wonderful loophole to lock up our young talent that no NFL GM including Bruce Allen has yet to use to lock up their young talent.

Damn you Hurney! DAMN YOU!!!!

I am saying there is loophole we can use which Allen has used before, is using now and can use in the future and likely will. it is something Hurney could and should use as we won't be able to afford our young core if we wait to shoulder the burden until next year when the signing bonuses will be twice as many. Unless we don't plan to keep many of our supposed core. No is blaming Hurney for not using it since the decision isn't his but Richardson. I am simply pointing out how we could do it to our advantage. Why is that so threatening or intimidating to you that you go on and on with tangential arguments. It seems you are no longer trying to discuss the merits of the concept and just trying to argue to win some kind of pissing contest.

[Udogg]

The franchise tag for OL is 8 million with centers getting around 5 or 6 per year. So you give him a sweetheart of a deal. You offer him a signing bonus of 14 million with a small salary of 650,000 in 2011 which satisfies the 30% rule and larger salaries of let say 5 million in 2012, 6 million in 2013, 8 million in 2014, and a roster bonus of 10 million in 2015 and a salary of 5 million in 2016. That comes out to a 6 year 48 million dollar contract or around 8 million per year. He know he gets the 14 and will probably see another 19 million over the next 3 years for a payout of 33 million for 4 year which again puts him in the 8 million range. if he doesn't stay at an all pro level we can let him go with little cap since we make all of that hit this year with a voidable clause. If he does then we will have gotten a bargain which will fit under the cap now and in the future.

Anyone else???

What if the same rules don't apply under the "new" collective bargaining agreement?

[panthers55]

His logic is greater than all 32 FO's combined apparently.

Allen is considered one of the great innovators of the cap so maybe he is smarter. I didn't come up with anything I am just pointing out the excellent strategy by an expert. what makes you think you are smarter than him just to negate his strategy or dismiss it??

[panthers55]

What if the same rules don't apply under the "new" collective bargaining agreement?

That is a definite possibility and would be a risk. Obviously one that he thinks it worth it. I expect he knows things we might not.

[panthers55]

But aren't your assumptions on the owners/players redoing things like they were? It was my understanding that the owners want to blow the old collective bargaining agreement up?

I really don't have any insight to what they are thinking or might do. I was only speculating based on a request how we could satisfy the 30 percent rule, keep a signing bonus reasonable, pay him commiserate to an all-pro center and extend him for 5 or 6 years now instead fo waiting. Frankly I don't know how the Fo or Kalil would react to that kind of deal. And until we have something new GMs will have to operate on what we have now.

[Delhommey]

The franchise tag for OL is 8 million with centers getting around 5 or 6 per year. So you give him a sweetheart of a deal. You offer him a signing bonus of 14 million with a small salary of 650,000 in 2011 which satisfies the 30% rule and larger salaries of let say 5 million in 2012, 6 million in 2013, 8 million in 2014, and a roster bonus of 10 million in 2015 and a salary of 5 million in 2016. That comes out to a 6 year 48 million dollar contract or around 8 million per year. He know he gets the 14 and will probably see another 19 million over the next 3 years for a payout of 33 million for 4 year which again puts him in the 8 million range.

And that's where ya messed up.

If you give him a salary of $650K in 2011, you can only raise it another 30% each subsequent year as it must be assumed, as there is no new CBA in place, that those years will be uncapped years as well. This means that at most they can pay him $845K in 2012, $1.1 million in 2013, $1.43 in 2014 and $1.86 million in 2015. To make that a fair market deal of 5 years, $30 million, you'd have to offer about $24 million or so to make it right. You can mumbo jumbo that $24 million any way you'd like, but it will still be $24 million you owe (for an example see Delhomme, Jake). Granted I might be off a few hundred thousand but the general principle is still there.

But clearly you and the Jets have it all figured out. That's why they went ahead and wrapped up their young talented Center Nick Mangold unlike that blockhead Hurney.

Oh.

Wait.

Well at least they've extended their talented young RFA LB David Harris unlike that fuddy duddy Richardson.

Oh.

Wait.

[panthers55]

It's very clear you aren't very clear what's going on, P55. Either that or you're being purposely obtuse.

Kalil and Williams cannot be extended this year with out outlandish signing bonuses. That may still happen with Williams, but if you think giving a center $25 million guaranteed is a "brilliant" move, well...OK.

As far as the tendered guys, well, we don't know what's going to happen there. In the NFL I can only think of one major RFA that was given an extension (Ryans) and that was a hefty contract. Half of the guys you've mentioned haven't even signed their tenders and of the list, only Moore signed before today. We have no idea what's happening there. Yes, none of them have been extended, but it's early yet.

If us not already signing Thomas Davis to a long term contract at this point is an indication that he may be let go into free agency next year, then that must mean that the Cowboys will let Miles Austin walk, The Saints will let Jammal Brown walk, The Vikes will let Ray Edwards walk, The Broncos will let Elvis Dumervil walk, The Texans will let Owen Daniels walk, and so on and so forth.

Sooooooo, in short we're back to complaining about cutting Lewis and Hoover.

Your the one being obtuse and going down bunny trails and red herrings. it is pretty clear to anyone who stops and thinks about the possibilities rather than throw garbage against the wall and hope something sticks.

I just showed you how you sign Kalil for alot less than 25 million guaranteed. Do you have any center in his 4th year getting that kind of signing bonus or are you just throwing a number out of your butt. I also just pointed out how in addition to Ryans, Marshall was extended, Boldin was extended for example. It doesn't matter if you trade and extend someone else or extend your own player, the signing bonus is the same. Just like signing free agents and giving them big bonuses as well. the point is that teams are looking to the future and using the uncapped year to get things done. When Peppers was released everyone was saying that we should use that money to lock up our own. Now you argue we shouldn't even though even i can figure out how to do it and use the cap to out advantage.

And another bunny trail with how not signing Thomas is similar to other teams RFAs. Let me make it clear so even you can get it. How much do you think it will cost to resign Kalil, Davis, Williams,Moore, Rosario, King, Louis, Tyler, Marshall, Godfrey, Connors, Anderson in signing bonuses next year?? You think that wating is better than taking some of it on this year when the current payroll is less than 100 million and putting it all on next year. It isn't like the Panthers are hurting for money. The big budget crunch is self imposed. Why wait when there isn't going to be a lockout, we will lose some core players if we wait until next year and we can use the cap to our advantage? Unless you can answer that, the rest of your comments are irrelevant and it is my bedtime.