How to sign your core group and take advantage of the uncapped year

[bleys]

How are our moves only about the next 18 months when we are going with younger and equal or better talent? Doesn't that usually mean you're trying to set yourself up for long term success? Whatever. Go ahead and spin anything you want just so you can shed a negative light on the Panthers because they hurt your feelings cuting some of your favorite vets.

whoa.. you're way out in left field on this topic...

how is this so hard to understand?

this isn't about talent or bad feelings or anything of the sort..

it's merely a theory of signing a few core players and taking advantage of an uncapped year. that is all.

[carolinanimal]

Its when Louis Leonard and Tank Tyler showed they could penetrate through the middle in their limited time they played. Unlike Lewis and Kemo. Its when Brown and Johnson have shown they have the ability to create pressure in their limited time. Its when Anderson proved he can play all 3 LB positions and is solid wherever you put him. Its when Jarrett finally shined when a competant QB was at the helm. He may not be a every down receiver, but he's proved that he can make clutch 3rd down catches when needed. Its when Mackenzy proved we couldnt miss a beat when he came in to start. Its when Sutton showed he has the ability to play not only HB but FB as well. We also drafted the best FB in the draft last year and he will show us why this year.

so you are saying the collective 3 or 4 games these guys played is better than the 20 or so YEARS of combined experience in the nfl for the other guys?? how did they stay in the nfl so long if they suck so bad they are worse than a 2nd stringer coming of ir?

most of the guys you talk about dont even have stat lines for last year. How are you quantifying how good they are? how are you projecting how good they will be? as of right now until they prove it ON THE FIELD we dont know how they will do. we can all be optomistic and hope they are good but we dont know. none of they have played much let alone played TOGETHER as a unit.

[Delhommey]

We do understand that the 30% rule has f**k all to do with a cap hit, correct?

I'm getting that maybe we don't.

Kalil and Williams cannot be resigned easily because they cannot be given a significant raise on their salary. It has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with cap allocation.

Now if you're somehow trying to argue that Hurney should just offer up about $55 million guaranteed to lock them up without blinking an eye, that's a whole nother can of idiocracy that no other team has yet to open up.

The Redskins are simply taking care of bad contracts EXACTLY LIKE THE PANTHERS HAVE.

The Redskins are cutting veterans EXACTLY LIKE THE PANTHERS HAVE.

The Redskins have not extended any of their young core EXACTLY LIKE THE PANTHERS HAVE NOT.

The only thing the Redskins have done differently is traded picks for a Veteran QB (which I don't think anyone thinks we needed to do) and signed washed up FA's to stupid contracts as per usual.

[bleys]

Unless you were trying to avoid paying any salaries to anyone next year and you believe there will be no football. Then you would be operating exactly as Richardson is doing. If he thought the deal would get done or that the lockout wouldn't extend beyond training camp for example you would be operating as if it were business as usual. These moves aren't about the long term future but the next 18 months only.

I would agree that if a huge lockout was going to occur that Richardson would not vary on our current course of action..

however, how long would he expect the lock out to occur?

we are talking 2 or 3 years of possible reduction in cap hit... so then the lockout would have to cover that same time period with no cap for these contracts to end up paying these players to not play.. which would be bad business..

[panthers55]

How are our moves only about the next 18 months when we are going with younger and equal or better talent? Doesn't that usually mean you're trying to set yourself up for long term success? Whatever. Go ahead and spin anything you want just so you can shed a negative light on the Panthers because they hurt your feelings cuting some of your favorite vets.

We are going with one guy because he is younger and potentially better (that would be Moore). But in every other case we are going with a guy who might be as good or potentially better but are definitely cheaper and for most there is no longterm contract. You mention Louis and Tyler without mentioning that Louis played in 2 games and is coming off IR while Tyler played in 6 games and had a total of 6 tackles compared to Lewis' 42 is an upgrade. Johnson, Brown, Brayton, and every other DE on the team didn't equal Pepper's sack total last year. We dumped the more expensive guy for the cheap still under the rookie cap or RFA low tender in every case. The deciding factor was the money not the production across the board. we went younger to go cheaper and save money not to get better. If we do get better production in any areas that will be a bonus not the driving force in the decision-making. otherwise we wouldn't have been so systematic is getting rid of everyone over 30 with the exception of special teams and Smitty.

[bleys]

We do understand that the 30% rule has f**k all to do with a cap hit, correct?

I'm getting that maybe we don't.

Kalil and Williams cannot be resigned easily because they cannot be given a significant raise on their salary. It has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with cap allocation.

Now if you're somehow trying to argue that Hurney should just offer up about $55 million guaranteed to lock them up without blinking an eye, that's a whole nother can of idiocracy that no other team has yet to open up.

The Redskins are simply taking care of bad contracts EXACTLY LIKE THE PANTHERS HAVE.

The Redskins are cutting veterans EXACTLY LIKE THE PANTHERS HAVE.

The Redskins have not extended any of their young core EXACTLY LIKE THE PANTHERS HAVE NOT.

The only thing the Redskins have done differently is traded picks for a Veteran QB (which I don't think anyone thinks we needed to do) and signed washed up FA's to stupid contracts as per usual.

I'm no cap specialist, if parts of the guaranteed money couldn't be reallocated to reduce the effect of the 30% rule, then I got ya..

if Kalil and Williams are the only 2 who fall under that, then can we not still sign the few others we need and attempt to make this theory work?

[Delhommey]

I'm no cap specialist, if parts of the guaranteed money couldn't be reallocated to reduce the effect of the 30% rule, then I got ya..

if Kalil and Williams are the only 2 who fall under that, then can we not still have quite a few others we can sign and attempt to make this theory work though..

Hall and Haynesworth are both in the second year of their monster (foolish) contracts. The Skins have simply moved the money to where most of the hit of their monster (foolish) contracts hit this year. It has absolutely no relevance to the extension of young talent.

Allen is being smart, but all he is doing is correcting the wrongs of Cerrato, which again has nothing to do with the extension of young talent. Ironically, with Haynesworth, Allen's just made it easier to deal him this year (as they've already tried to do).

The point being P55 is simply trying to twist a situation to make an apple into an orange so he can complain about (from the best I can tell) us dumping Lewis and Hoover and the like. The amusing thing is Washington dumped still semi productive older players (Such as Rock Cartwright, Randy Thomas, and Ladell Betts) exactly like the Panthers.

[panthers55]

I would agree that if a huge lockout was going to occur that Richardson would not vary on our current course of action..

however, how long would he expect the lock out to occur?

we are talking 2 or 3 years of possible reduction in cap hit... so then the lockout would have to cover that same time period with no cap for these contracts to end up paying these players to not play.. which would be bad business..

No he doesn't want to spread his payments out he wants as few payments as possible. If there is an extended lockout for the whole season he doesn't have to pay any player not under contract who isnt getting any guaranteed money. Right now the only players with significant longterm contracts that extend beyond this year are Gross, Wharton, Otah, Beason, Smith, Stewart, Gamble, and Brayton. Many others are under a cheap rookie contract like Martin, Godfrey, Connor, etc. Many more will be free agents next year like all of our tendered guys (Moore, Tyler, Davis, Marshall, Wilson, King, Etc) guys whose contracts expire Williams, Rosario, Jarrett, Kalil, etc. The list goes on. His payroll in 2011 could be at little as 50 or 60 million without football. If there is no lockout then he will have to renegotiate all those contracts and turn over big signing bonuses to keep guys like Kalil, Williams and Davis and Moore. Hurney might be able to fit things under a cap if there is one in 2011, but the actual salaries which includes signing bonuses which are paid when the contract is inked would make the spending much higher perhaps as much as 140 million or more. By resigning some guys this year and other next his payroll goes up this year and down next year but the advantage is that money paid this year doesn't count towards a future cap while money paid next year would count if a cap is reinstated on the new CBA.

Clear as mud right?

[theyhateme45]

If it were that easy and straight forward I'm sure all 32 teams would be doing it....

But I'm sure we could understand the intricacies of the NFL complex current salary structure better than they can...

But your right... the redskins front office has been the class of the NFL. When all fails do as they do.

[Delhommey]

It's very clear you aren't very clear what's going on, P55. Either that or you're being purposely obtuse.

Kalil and Williams cannot be extended this year with out outlandish signing bonuses. That may still happen with Williams, but if you think giving a center $25 million guaranteed is a "brilliant" move, well...OK.

As far as the tendered guys, well, we don't know what's going to happen there. In the NFL I can only think of one major RFA that was given an extension (Ryans) and that was a hefty contract. Half of the guys you've mentioned haven't even signed their tenders and of the list, only Moore signed before today. We have no idea what's happening there. Yes, none of them have been extended, but it's early yet.

If us not already signing Thomas Davis to a long term contract at this point is an indication that he may be let go into free agency next year, then that must mean that the Cowboys will let Miles Austin walk, The Saints will let Jammal Brown walk, The Vikes will let Ray Edwards walk, The Broncos will let Elvis Dumervil walk, The Texans will let Owen Daniels walk, and so on and so forth.

Sooooooo, in short we're back to complaining about cutting Lewis and Hoover.

[panthers55]

We do understand that the 30% rule has f**k all to do with a cap hit, correct?

I'm getting that maybe we don't.

Kalil and Williams cannot be resigned easily because they cannot be given a significant raise on their salary. It has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with cap allocation.

Now if you're somehow trying to argue that Hurney should just offer up about $55 million guaranteed to lock them up without blinking an eye, that's a whole nother can of idiocracy that no other team has yet to open up.

The Redskins are simply taking care of bad contracts EXACTLY LIKE THE PANTHERS HAVE.

The Redskins are cutting veterans EXACTLY LIKE THE PANTHERS HAVE.

The Redskins have not extended any of their young core EXACTLY LIKE THE PANTHERS HAVE NOT.

The only thing the Redskins have done differently is traded picks for a Veteran QB (which I don't think anyone thinks we needed to do) and signed washed up FA's to stupid contracts as per usual.

Wrong again. The 30% rule doesn't prohibit you from signing your own players. It says base salary can't go up more than 30% from 2009 to 2010. Signing bonuses aren't included in base salaries as they are prorated through the life of the contract unless you use some cap mechanism like voided years to take the cap hit this year and still not violate the 30% rule. The rules doesn't stop you from negotiating at all it just stops you from making most of the salary a base salary and more of it has to be a signing bonus. It doesn't mean 90% up front because you can add all kind of roster bonuses, incentives, future options etc, which all aren't guaranteed. But in any case you are going to have to spend some big money in signing bonuses. What do you think Williams will want. How about Moore if he has a very good year? Be serious, you are just putting off the inevitable rather than dealing it and making it work to your advantage. And your absolutely wrong that teams aren't doing it. Washington who is the comparison for this discussion just spend 36 million on 2 guys to clear the cap hit and make it happen this year. And they fit under the 30% rule. Again Richardson just raised prices on tickets and he spent 115 million in salaries in 2009 and he made money. He could easily spend 130 million this year lock up a few players and still be profitable. With a payroll expected to be under 100 million this year he would have plenty for signing bonuses. If he puts things off do you really think it will be any easier next year when there will be more contracts to ink and more signing bonuses to pay? The reality is that the time to buy is when other aren't. And the bad contracts arguments is again irrelevant although you seemed to determine to make the cruz of your argument and it isn't even applicable.

[Delhommey]

The. Redskins. Did. Not. Give. Haynesworth. And. Hall. Anything. New. They. Reworked. Their. Existing. Contracts. Of. Which. They. Were. Both. In. Their. Second. Year. Of.

Haynesworth. And. Hall. Were. Not. Extended. For. Any. Additional. Years.

Williams. Might. Still. Be. Given. A. New. Contract. With. Most. Of. It. Being. Guaranteed. But. Giving. Him. $30 million. In. New. Guaranteed. Money. Is. Risky.

Giving. Kalil. $25. Million. Guaranteed. Is. Retarded.

[panthers55]

If it were that easy and straight forward I'm sure all 32 teams would be doing it....

But I'm sure we could understand the intricacies of the NFL complex current salary structure better than they can...

But your right... the redskins front office has been the class of the NFL. When all fails do as they do.

You obviously don't know much about Bruce Allen. He is new to the redskins so the discussion about how they used to operate is totally off base. And again it isn't the intricacies of the salary structure, it is that Richardson won't spend the signing bonuses. He is going on the cheap and he will make more money that he did last year. And no not everyone is doing it but several teams are like the Jets, Chicago, Miami, Washington. Just like the stock market, the smart one do things ahead of everyone else. Those that wait around to do the safe thing find the opportunities are gone and things are way more expensive. that is analogous to us waiting until after the window closes to sign our guys next year and a cap is put in which limits our ability to sign the guys we want.

[theyhateme45]

You obviously don't know much about Bruce Allen. He is new to the redskins so the discussion about how they used to operate is totally off base. And again it isn't the intricacies of the salary structure, it is that Richardson won't spend the signing bonuses. He is going on the cheap and he will make more money that he did last year. And no not everyone is doing it but several teams are like the Jets, Chicago, Miami, Washington. Just like the stock market, the smart one do things ahead of everyone else. Those that wait around to do the safe thing find the opportunities are gone and things are way more expensive. that is analogous to us waiting until after the window closes to sign our guys next year and a cap is put in which limits our ability to sign the guys we want.

Maybe I am wrong... If so please educate me.

Who has the Jets, Bears, Dolphins, and redskins given contract extensions to? And what are the details of these extensions??