It's not just the Panthers... the NFL sucks at developing young QBs "it's a systemic problem"

[rayzor]

1 hour ago, CPantherKing said:

It's a plug for QB Summit.

So you didn't watch it.

[WhoKnows]

12 hours ago, rayzor said:

all that said...i don't think Bryce will ever be successful.

He doesn’t have the physical tools. He's certainly not fast enough to be a Fields or Lamar or Cam or Daniels where his running is a legit weapon. He’s also saddled with an anemic arm.

Baker and Sam had physical tools and in Baker’s case, had success for a year elsewhere. Darnold also had a period of success here as well.

Bryce doesn’t have that fall back talent that someone else can improve with coaching.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, Jon Snow said:

That's not an nfl issue it's an owner issue. The owners put pressure on the coaches to play them before they are ready. Very few if any have a vet to sit behind for at least a year to learn and adjust to the game. The Panthers would benefit from having a serviceable veteran that would allow them to sit their next rookie. Had they done that last season maybe things would look different. 

No amount of sitting is going to allow for Bryce Young to develop NFL level talent.

[LinvilleGorge]

21 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

He doesn’t have the physical tools. He's certainly not fast enough to be a Fields or Lamar or Cam or Daniels where his running is a legit weapon. He’s also saddled with an anemic arm.

Baker and Sam had physical tools and in Baker’s case, had success for a year elsewhere. Darnold also had a period of success here as well.

Bryce doesn’t have that fall back talent that someone else can improve with coaching.

Yeah, with other NFL QBs - even bad ones - you can see flashes of ability. They don't suck because they flat out don't have the physical tools. Maybe they aren't making the right reads or maybe they aren't throwing the ball accurately enough or maybe they just break under pressure, but when things go right they look the part. When things go "right" for Bryce he completes a five yards slant with no velocity. He just doesn't look like he belongs out there.

[Davidson Deac II]

1 hour ago, Jon Snow said:

That's not an nfl issue it's an owner issue. The owners put pressure on the coaches to play them before they are ready. Very few if any have a vet to sit behind for at least a year to learn and adjust to the game. The Panthers would benefit from having a serviceable veteran that would allow them to sit their next rookie. Had they done that last season maybe things would look different. 

Not just the owners. The GM and other front office personnel, Media,  and Fans do as well.  There are a large number of people here on this site that believe anyone drafted in the top ten or maybe in the first round have to be ready to go from day one.   

IMO, you draft a player on the potential of what they might become.  If a player is drafted first, or 301st, he should play when the coach feels he is ready, and his draft position should not be a consideration.  

[Panthers Fan 69]

10 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

That's not an nfl issue it's an owner issue. The owners put pressure on the coaches to play them before they are ready. Very few if any have a vet to sit behind for at least a year to learn and adjust to the game. The Panthers would benefit from having a serviceable veteran that would allow them to sit their next rookie. Had they done that last season maybe things would look different. 

As in keep Sam Darnold and let Bryce sit. Who knows how it would have turned out. 

[Panthero]

On 11/1/2024 at 9:24 PM, WhoKnows said:

He doesn’t have the physical tools. He's certainly not fast enough to be a Fields or Lamar or Cam or Daniels where his running is a legit weapon. He’s also saddled with an anemic arm.

Baker and Sam had physical tools and in Baker’s case, had success for a year elsewhere. Darnold also had a period of success here as well.

Bryce doesn’t have that fall back talent that someone else can improve with coaching.

Precisely. In the nfl you have to win some way since everyone is so good. The scouts all said "unreal processing". That typically bodes well. Most qbs are overwhelmed by the speed and skill at the pro level. But in the end you see why people still value physical traits in qbs, you need something to bail you out when the other poo doesn't work. 

I'm of the opinion with all of these seven year guys (Mayfield, geno, now darnold) that you get the talent and then just let em be the backup for years. I mean if you have a top qb, draft his replacement with the thought of it being a 4-5 year move. Quit trying to hit it big with a guy, who will have no support and is set up to fail......like Bryce. 

[CPantherKing]

On 11/1/2024 at 8:53 PM, LinvilleGorge said:

You named all of those guys and only one of them (Foles) ended up being a 28-30 year old SB QB and he was signed to be a backup to an elite QB and ended up getting an elite team across the finish line catching lightning in a bottle. Thanks for making my point for me.

You don't know your championship game QBs over the past decade. Then you want to limit it to SB QBs? That disproves your point even more about QBs needing to be drafted for SB teams.

Alex Smith was 29, Peyton Manning was 36, Tom Brady was 43, Jimmy Garoppolo was 28, and Matthew Stafford was 33 when they brought championship game experience to the teams that DID NOT draft them. You only know Nick Foles for taking over to drive his team into the playoffs and a SB victory? The Chiefs, Broncos, Buccaneers, 49ers, Rams and Eagles didn't need to acquire their championship game QB through the draft

I was listing the QB rooms of the SB winning franchises. They built those franchises up before they inserted QBs, and you know better than them? These are the teams you want to contend against, right? Are you saying they needed to draft an 'insert QB here' to build the success? To the contrary, a team is much less likely to build success by drafting a QB they plan to build around. The success and leadership were already consistent for those teams before Mahomes, Purdy, and Hurts arrived. Success built on championship QBs (not drafted) Alex Smith, Jimmy Garoppolo, and Nick Foles.

[LinvilleGorge]

10 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

You don't know your championship game QBs over the past decade. Then you want to limit it to SB QBs? That disproves your point even more about QBs needing to be drafted for SB teams.

Alex Smith was 29, Peyton Manning was 36, Tom Brady was 43, Jimmy Garoppolo was 28, and Matthew Stafford was 33 when they brought championship game experience to the teams that DID NOT draft them. You only know Nick Foles for taking over to drive his team into the playoffs and a SB victory? The Chiefs, Broncos, Buccaneers, 49ers, Rams and Eagles didn't need to acquire their championship game QB through the draft

I was listing the QB rooms of the SB winning franchises. They built those franchises up before they inserted QBs, and you know better than them? These are the teams you want to contend against, right? Are you saying they needed to draft an 'insert QB here' to build the success? To the contrary, a team is much less likely to build success by drafting a QB they plan to build around. The success and leadership were already consistent for those teams before Mahomes, Purdy, and Hurts arrived. Success built on championship QBs (not drafted) Alex Smith, Jimmy Garoppolo, and Nick Foles.

My original statement:

Now the goalposts keep getting moved. Now you're talking about a handful of conference championship game QBs.

The point is that high level QBs in their prime are extraordinarily rarely available and when they are there are usually extenuating circumstances - injuries, off field issues, etc. You best avenue by far of acquiring a high level long term QB is the draft. Period.

[Ricky Prickles]

The only thing I'm sure of when I see Bryce is that he does not physically look like an NFL QB and his skill set does not either. All of that combined with his lack of leadership qualities, from what I read if true his lack of working out and working hard in the off-season and his what appears to be very delicate mind all do not show any signs of an NFL QB. I simply do not feel as if anyone on planet earth could develop Bryce to be a successful NFL QB unfortunately. I would love to be proven wrong or it be the opposite but Bryce literally does not even look like he belongs on an NFL practice squad. Poor guy seems like a nice fella you wouldn't mind your daughter dating but he just doesn't appear to have anything about him that belongs in the NFL. 

Heart and desire and that fire inside can carry someone to greatness in any goal they have but Bryce does not show that fire and for someone as small and weak as Bryce appears to be, he would have to have a Steve Smith level of nastiness and fire inside to even have a chance at anything in the NFL. It's just not there though unfortunately. I don't see a nastiness or a fire inside him. 

[*FreeFua*]

good thread.

Olsen recently talked about this as well. 

Like Palmer said, guys like Stroud and Daniels ruin it for everyone else. 

I think McCarthy getting hurt was beneficial to him so he could sit this year. Penix sitting behind Cousins will only benefit him. I’m at the point where I truly believe these kids need to sit coming out of college for a year or two. 

Id be more willing to kick the tires on a guy like Zach Wilson now having sat for a year and being around Sean Payton. Zach was clearly always talented and watching Rodgers stink it up now in NY in the same offense only helps Wilson’s case

I believe if not for the car accident Dalton would’ve started the rest of the year. If Dave and Dan still believe in Bryce (I’m not sure they do) they could still bring in another veteran next year and have Bryce sit. With the intention of playing Bryce in year 4. 

If they do draft someone in 2025 it better be with the intention of sitting him 

[thunderraiden]

They say guys like Stroud ruin it for everyone else but the playcalling is just night and day, the Texans aren't making Stroud win them the game on 3rd and 10 5 or 6 times a game, they are legit running it sometimes on those downs and distance to protect their QB and put him in winning situations. We finally start putting our QB in winning situations from Week 3 onward and people still want to poo on the guy because our run game is unstoppable and we shouldn't have even been throwing at much as we did if Brooks was healthy.

[SOJA]

It's because we have become so reactionary. Every week a new team is the worst team in the league or someone else is falling apart and next week they are superbowl contenders. They don't wait for rookies to develop because they want the immediate Russel Wilson seahawks success and starting the timeline of a championship team as early as possible due to the value of rookie QB contracts 

[*FreeFua*]

1 hour ago, SOJA said:

It's because we have become so reactionary. Every week a new team is the worst team in the league or someone else is falling apart and next week they are superbowl contenders. They don't wait for rookies to develop because they want the immediate Russel Wilson seahawks success and starting the timeline of a championship team as early as possible due to the value of rookie QB contracts 

Russ really went to the perfect situation. Look at his passing yards in most games. Nothing crazy but they were winning. Russ was throwing touchdowns though and interceptions were low.

That 320 passing yard game in 2013 came against the Panthers