With the first pick, don't draft a QB? Draft a DE? C'mon!

[CPF4LIFE]

7 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

I just tried a few mock draft simulators and this is the only way lol. Nothing else makes sense. 

Agreed. There will be a lot of talent available 

 

[tukafan21]

30 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Why do people act like we have only one pick in the draft or something? It's strange....The offense needs a QB, the defense needs MULTIPLE talent any position. You aren't gonna fix anything with one player and there is no hutchinson, peppers, donald, watt type in this draft. I say if you need a qb get one then go defense the rest of the way. 

Because there's also not a QB that deserves to go #1 right now either.

Missing on a QB in the Top 10 is a franchise killer.  Missing on a QB at #1 when you just missed on a QB at #1 two years prior after trading a haul to get the pick, is unimaginably bad.

At this point my argument against a QB is also less about my desire of drafting T-Mac and just that it's not the year for anyone to take a QB #1, let alone a team devoid of talent in general as we are.  

That very well could end up changing come draft time, but I just don't think any of the QB's this year are that type of prospect where a team like ours can take the chance on them.  We need to draft someone who is 100% going to pan out, and none of these QB's are going to end up like that by draft day.

[Jackie Lee]

9 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Because there's also not a QB that deserves to go #1 right now either.

Missing on a QB in the Top 10 is a franchise killer.  Missing on a QB at #1 when you just missed on a QB at #1 two years prior after trading a haul to get the pick, is unimaginably bad.

At this point my argument against a QB is also less about my desire of drafting T-Mac and just that it's not the year for anyone to take a QB #1, let alone a team devoid of talent in general as we are.  

That very well could end up changing come draft time, but I just don't think any of the QB's this year are that type of prospect where a team like ours can take the chance on them.  We need to draft someone who is 100% going to pan out, and none of these QB's are going to end up like that by draft day.

Have you actually looked at the available top talent outside of Hunter, Sanders, and Ward? If so could you list viable options at #1 aside from those 3? I can't find any

[tukafan21]

39 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Have you actually looked at the available top talent outside of Hunter, Sanders, and Ward? If so could you list viable options at #1 aside from those 3? I can't find any

Tetairoa McMillan.  

The last 28 1st overall picks were either a QB, DE, or OT.

Seeing as I don't think we'd take an OT in the 1st and give up on Ickey as an LT yet and there doesn't seem to be a clear overall #1 type of QB or DE pick this year, it very well could be a non conventional #1 overall this year, at least in regards from the last almost 3 decades of drafts.

If we didn't have Horn, I'd be more open to Hunter as a CB at #1, but we have him so another CB wouldn't be how I'd use a #1 pick.  And as much as I love Legette, if we have SB contending aspirations, I don't think Legette is a #1 on a team like that, but he damn sure is an elite #2 on a team like that.  He's more of the Smith/Higgins/Waddle to Brown/Chase/Hill (in terms of role/impact, not style of play of course).

T-Mac is going to be the top ranked WR on every team's board in the end.  He is going to be a true outside #1 WR who is viewed as a consensus Top 5 WR in the game by his second contract in the same way guys like Jefferson and Chase have done.  His height combined with his speed, athleticism, and hands are near impossible to find all in one player, there is a reason his generally used comp is Mike Evans (although as he's not as thick, I personally see him more as an AJ Green).

Yes, as an Arizona alum I've admitted to having bias towards the player to begin with.  But he's also someone very widely being put into the Top 5 in mock drafts lately and most of them have him as the first non QB offensive player being taken, so it's not really THAT much of a homer pick on my part anyways.

If a QB or DE truly separate themselves as being a can't miss prospect come draft day, I'm open to that discussion, but until then, or if it doesn't happen, T-Mac is my pick 100 times out of 100.

Edited November 1 by tukafan21

[ProcessBlue2]

I wouldn't take OT away either. Next year is probably Moton's last season with us. Now, I doubt we fill it in the 1st round, but they could always slide Ickey over and draft a true LT.

[JRoCK]

we need a generational player so we can trade them in 3 years for 2nd round pick I hate our front office. Where is dave gettleman when you need him.  

[Ricky Prickles]

5 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

Tetairoa McMillan.  

The last 28 1st overall picks were either a QB, DE, or OT.

Seeing as I don't think we'd take an OT in the 1st and give up on Ickey as an LT yet and there doesn't seem to be a clear overall #1 type of QB or DE pick this year, it very well could be a non conventional #1 overall this year, at least in regards from the last almost 3 decades of drafts.

If we didn't have Horn, I'd be more open to Hunter as a CB at #1, but we have him so another CB wouldn't be how I'd use a #1 pick.  And as much as I love Legette, if we have SB contending aspirations, I don't think Legette is a #1 on a team like that, but he damn sure is an elite #2 on a team like that.  He's more of the Smith/Higgins/Waddle to Brown/Chase/Hill (in terms of role/impact, not style of play of course).

T-Mac is going to be the top ranked WR on every team's board in the end.  He is going to be a true outside #1 WR who is viewed as a consensus Top 5 WR in the game by his second contract in the same way guys like Jefferson and Chase have done.  His height combined with his speed, athleticism, and hands are near impossible to find all in one player, there is a reason his generally used comp is Mike Evans (although as he's not as thick, I personally see him more as an AJ Green).

Yes, as an Arizona alum I've admitted to having bias towards the player to begin with.  But he's also someone very widely being put into the Top 5 in mock drafts lately and most of them have him as the first non QB offensive player being taken, so it's not really THAT much of a homer pick on my part anyways.

If a QB or DE truly separate themselves as being a can't miss prospect come draft day, I'm open to that discussion, but until then, or if it doesn't happen, T-Mac is my pick 100 times out of 100.

I like him too and he is definitely worthy of a top pick but I personally just worry that we have nobody to throw him the ball. Bryce is incapable and Dalton is old and will be even older next season. If we go TMAC, then we must sign a proven vet QB. People may not like the idea but I like Jameis Winston for that role next season just because he can and will throw it all over the field. If he could get a d keep the ints down he would look very solid most games.

[HPPantherzfan]

3 hours ago, Ricky Prickles said:

I like him too and he is definitely worthy of a top pick but I personally just worry that we have nobody to throw him the ball. Bryce is incapable and Dalton is old and will be even older next season. If we go TMAC, then we must sign a proven vet QB. People may not like the idea but I like Jameis Winston for that role next season just because he can and will throw it all over the field. If he could get a d keep the ints down he would look very solid most games.

This is what I’ve been saying as well, I like T-Mac…ALLOT!  The problem is a WR is nothing if he can’t get the ball in his hands to make plays.  T-Mac and /or Hunter would be a waste on this team right now.  We either have to take another swing at a QB or we have to go D

Edited November 1 by HPPantherzfan

[TD alt]

9 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

Tetairoa McMillan.  

The last 28 1st overall picks were either a QB, DE, or OT.

Seeing as I don't think we'd take an OT in the 1st and give up on Ickey as an LT yet and there doesn't seem to be a clear overall #1 type of QB or DE pick this year, it very well could be a non conventional #1 overall this year, at least in regards from the last almost 3 decades of drafts.

If we didn't have Horn, I'd be more open to Hunter as a CB at #1, but we have him so another CB wouldn't be how I'd use a #1 pick.  And as much as I love Legette, if we have SB contending aspirations, I don't think Legette is a #1 on a team like that, but he damn sure is an elite #2 on a team like that.  He's more of the Smith/Higgins/Waddle to Brown/Chase/Hill (in terms of role/impact, not style of play of course).

T-Mac is going to be the top ranked WR on every team's board in the end.  He is going to be a true outside #1 WR who is viewed as a consensus Top 5 WR in the game by his second contract in the same way guys like Jefferson and Chase have done.  His height combined with his speed, athleticism, and hands are near impossible to find all in one player, there is a reason his generally used comp is Mike Evans (although as he's not as thick, I personally see him more as an AJ Green).

Yes, as an Arizona alum I've admitted to having bias towards the player to begin with.  But he's also someone very widely being put into the Top 5 in mock drafts lately and most of them have him as the first non QB offensive player being taken, so it's not really THAT much of a homer pick on my part anyways.

If a QB or DE truly separate themselves as being a can't miss prospect come draft day, I'm open to that discussion, but until then, or if it doesn't happen, T-Mac is my pick 100 times out of 100.

Arizona alum, eh. Now I get it  

[tukafan21]

11 hours ago, Ricky Prickles said:

I like him too and he is definitely worthy of a top pick but I personally just worry that we have nobody to throw him the ball. Bryce is incapable and Dalton is old and will be even older next season. If we go TMAC, then we must sign a proven vet QB. People may not like the idea but I like Jameis Winston for that role next season just because he can and will throw it all over the field. If he could get a d keep the ints down he would look very solid most games.

 

7 hours ago, HPPantherzfan said:

This is what I’ve been saying as well, I like T-Mac…ALLOT!  The problem is a WR is nothing if he can’t get the ball in his hands to make plays.  T-Mac and /or Hunter would be a waste on this team right now.  We either have to take another swing at a QB or we have to go D

But you can't not draft weapons just because you don't currently have a great QB to get them the ball, you're drafting a player like T-Mac hoping/expecting him to be your #1 WR for the next decade.  And taking someone like him #1 doesn't stop you from still replacing our QBs through another way this offseason.

Take T-Mac, then go one of two routes for QB next year, sign someone like Jameis who is going to be able to get the ball to them and help develop those weapons next year while we look for our long term QB the following offseason.  Or you try and trade for someone like Hooker from the Lions, start him all year, if he shows he can be the guy, you have your QB, if he doesn't, we're going to be in the Top 10 again and then can take a QB then.

[tukafan21]

7 hours ago, TD alt said:

Arizona alum, eh. Now I get it  

I've admitted that since I started pushing us to target T-Mac during last season.

But it's also not like I'm trying to push us taking a mid to late 1st round prospect at the top of the draft, he's widely being mocked as a Top 5 guy lately, I've seen some mocks have him as high as #2.

So pushing to take a Top 5 guy 1st overall, at a position of need, in a draft without an elite QB or DE prospect, doesn't seem out of line, alumni connection or not.  This board has been up in arms for YEARS about not being able to solve our #1 WR problem, and here is someone who not only will solve that for the next decade, but he's also a very unique blend of size/athleticism at the same time.

It's a no brainer to me, my bias aside

 

[CamWhoaaCam]

9 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

I've admitted that since I started pushing us to target T-Mac during last season.

But it's also not like I'm trying to push us taking a mid to late 1st round prospect at the top of the draft, he's widely being mocked as a Top 5 guy lately, I've seen some mocks have him as high as #2.

So pushing to take a Top 5 guy 1st overall, at a position of need, in a draft without an elite QB or DE prospect, doesn't seem out of line, alumni connection or not.  This board has been up in arms for YEARS about not being able to solve our #1 WR problem, and here is someone who not only will solve that for the next decade, but he's also a very unique blend of size/athleticism at the same time.

It's a no brainer to me, my bias aside

 

So because he's a projected top 5 pick he's should be the guy we draft.

 

Yet you say the other 2 QBs who are projected top 5 picks are not worth it because you think they aren't that good.

 

That's my problem with you. You just seem to only care about Tmac. I have yet to see you suggest anyone outside of Tmac. At least I'm open to other prospects.

[ForJimmy]

TMac is good, but he isn't pick 1 on a WR good.  Last year he would be below Nabers and Williams.  This year you could argue Hunter is the better WR.  WR at 1 better be a Calvin Johnson not a WR that disappears some games in college...

[tukafan21]

1 minute ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

So because he's a projected top 5 pick he's should be the guy we draft.

 

Yet you say the other 2 QBs who are projected top 5 picks are not worth it because you think they aren't that good.

 

That's my problem with you. You just seem to only care about Tmac. I have yet to see you suggest anyone outside of Tmac. At least I'm open to other prospects.

Where did I once say we should draft him because he's a projected Top 5 pick?  

That's one of my many problems with you, your reading comprehension skills are very poor (and/or you just don't care to use your brain, one of the two).  I solely used that to point out that me pushing T-Mac isn't some absurd homerism, that at least I'm pushing someone who is deserving of a Top 5 draft pick.

And despite me explaining it to you numerous times, you still seem to not grasp how QB's get placed in mock drafts vs draft grades.  They are treated entirely different in mock drafts to any other position, because of how teams generally treat them in the draft because of how important the position is.

Literally any other position except QB, mock drafts generally follow draft grades with some team needs factored in.  But with QB's, draft grades are generally disregarded and they ALWAYS put a few QB's at the very top of the draft, because that's just usually what happens.  The exact same thing happened in 2022 with guys like Pickett and Willis widely being Top 10 picks in mock drafts, only for Pickett to fall to what, around 20?, and Willis going in the 2nd round (and even being the 3rd QB if I remember correctly too).

The overwhelming majority of draft experts are saying there isn't a high first round grade on these QB's, but they still get mocked there because they're trying to predict how the draft will actually go.

That's been my point the entire time, reaching for a QB in a bad QB draft when you have a roster as depleted of talent as ours, does not tend to work out well.

And I've never said I'm not open to other players, I've very explicitly said that if a QB or DE stands out come draft time, I'm open to that discussion.  That I'd be open to Hunter as a CB but I prefer a WR over a CB at the top of the draft.  But we're also not talking about the 15th pick here where there could realistically be all sorts of possible picks to discuss.  With the first pick, there really would only be a small handful of options, T-Mac is head and shoulders above any other given our current roster and state of the franchise in general.