With the first pick, don't draft a QB? Draft a DE? C'mon!

[CamWhoaaCam]

23 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Okay, I'm back at my computer so easier to respond to your nonsense now.........

You attack my football intelligence, but you are completely unable to look at anything in reality, you live in this vacuum where you only see letters and numbers on a sheet of paper and think you can do anything you want to do with no regards to what other teams would want to do.

You say taking a WR with the #1 pick is dumb unless you have a QB in place.

My response to that is you don't take a QB #1 overall when they aren't a good enough prospect to justify taking them there.

One is judging the player by who you think they will be at the NFL level, one is judging them by the position they play and nothing else.  People can disagree with someone's evaluation of a player, but you don't, you just look at their positions and stats in a vacuum.

You say that you control the draft if you have the #1 pick, but you don't.  You can want to make a trade all you want, but if another team doesn't want to make a trade with you, then you don't control the draft, all you control is who you can take with said #1 pick.  

The 2023 draft is a PERFECT example of this

The Bears tried to trade with the Colts and Texans before us, but neither felt it was worth giving up additional assets in a down QB draft, when they knew a QB they would be wiling to draft would fall to where they were at.  If we weren't absurdly stupid to make that trade, the odds are the Bears wouldn't have been able to make one and would have ended up taking a non QB there themselves.

We're in the same situation.  Once we signal that we want to trade the pick, it tells the world that we don't think any of the QB's are worth that pick for us, because if we did, obviously we'd draft them.

If teams KNOW we're not taking a QB, they have zero motivation to trade with us to take the QB they want, they would just target the #2 pick, knowing the QB they want would still be there.  Sure we may make a trade in the end, but since the discussion is who you would take at #1 if we have to, there's literally no point in talking about trades here, even if that's everyone preference.

You can disagree with me on my view that none of these QB's are worth taking #1, that's totally fair.  But to attack me for saying I'd take T-Mac instead is just nonsense given my view on this year's QB class.  

If I told you right now that you can't choose a QB (as again, that's my viewpoint, that none are worth it in this class there) and you can't trade back and had to take someone 1st overall... who are you taking?

Say you'd take a QB, that's fair, but attacking me for "wanting to draft a WR #1" when I've clearly stated I don't view any of the QB's as being worth taken there, is just nonsense as you can't just pass on a draft pick, you still have to take someone.

So again, I'll end it asking you the same question... Put yourself in my shoes for a second and just pretend that you agree that none of the QB's are worth the #1 pick for us.  Besides saying you'd then make a trade, as it takes two to tango, if you HAD to select someone at #1 and you were in my shoes and agree no QB is worth it, who would you take?

To me, once you remove QB from the equation, and since I don't see an elite pass rusher in this class either, it comes down to two players, T-Mac and Hunter.

So it's not about me wanting to "draft a WR #1", it's about me looking at the players I think make sense at drafting in the Top 5 in general, looking at our roster, and taking the player I think makes the most sense.  And at that point, for me, it just happened to be a WR.

It's called evaluating a situation by looking at everything involved, not just their position or stats, which is what you do.

I can't be in your shoes because if we have the #1 pick and you saying we can't trade back in definitely taking the best QB prospect.

 

I get you are down on Sanders and Ward as QB prospects, but that doesn't mean other teams are. I'm confident those 2 will likely go in the top 5. Not sure how you can't understand QBs will always get the benefit of the doubt just because the position is most valuable and most important.

 

Have you thought about if we take Tmac #1 and if Sanders or Ward go on to have a successful rookie season like Daniels or Stroud. Do you know how bad that would make us look as a franchise? Passing on a franchise QB for a WR is just crazy.

 

You can believe what you want. I just don't agree with it.

[tukafan21]

23 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

I can't be in your shoes because if we have the #1 pick and you saying we can't trade back in definitely taking the best QB prospect.

 

I get you are down on Sanders and Ward as QB prospects, but that doesn't mean other teams are. I'm confident those 2 will likely go in the top 5. Not sure how you can't understand QBs will always get the benefit of the doubt just because the position is most valuable and most important.

 

Have you thought about if we take Tmac #1 and if Sanders or Ward go on to have a successful rookie season like Daniels or Stroud. Do you know how bad that would make us look as a franchise? Passing on a franchise QB for a WR is just crazy.

 

You can believe what you want. I just don't agree with it.

My point was less about what you'd do if you have to pick #1 and can't trade back, because you've made your point, you'd take the QB.  The point was if you also didn't believe a QB was worth it there, who would you then take?

Because you keep bashing me for saying I'd take a WR #1, but if a QB or trade back isn't an option, you still have to make the draft pick, that's why i was asking who you'd take in that situation.  You can't bash me for taking a WR there if you refuse to say who you'd then take instead, whether it be Hunter, one of the DL, or something else.

And it wouldn't matter of they had a successful rookie season, the same way people disregard what Stroud did last year, because they say (and rightfully so) that if you drop Stroud on the Panthers last year, he likely severely struggles given the team that was around him.  It's just more proof that you can't view things outside a vacuum, one player succeeding somewhere else doesn't mean you made the wrong pick yourself.

You keep arguing for a QB by saying that you're taking them because of the position, NOT the player.  It's just beyond comical at this point that you can't see that.  

If the team doesn't think Sanders, Ward, or some other QB grades out to be worth the risk at #1, then it doesn't matter how they end up doing with someone else.  Because us taking them at #1 if we didn't think they were worth it, would be a completely moronic situation, it's taking a player because of their position, not their abilities.

This franchise isn't a QB away from contending.  People want to solve all of our problems with a QB pick and think it's going to turn us into contenders in Year 1.  We're in a multi year re-build that hasn't even fully kicked off yet, forcing a pick because of their position is how you compound your issues and tank that player's chances for success from the start.

Until people realize and accept that, they're going to want to keep making picks based on need, not based on the players available.  You don't build a contending team by taking risks at the top of the draft every year because of your needs with no regards to the player's NFL projections.

3 QB's went in 2023 because of their position and team need, with disregard to their draft grades.

2 of them have already been benched in Year 2 and the 3rd is having a down year themselves.

How you can't see that there is a distinct chance that is repeating itself with this draft, when we're one of those teams who is in that situation, is utterly beyond me.

Just because you need a QB and they historically get taken in the Top 5 every year, doesn't mean you need to do that in a year you don't believe there is a QB worthy of the pick.

I'm VERY down on this year's QB class as Top 5 type of picks.  If we were at say 12, with a better roster, then yea, I'd be much more on board with taking that risk.  But we can't take a huge risk on these QB's when we have as many holes as we do, with no 2nd round pick.  If we did that and we miss, this franchise will be in such despair in a year or two that it would be unimaginably worse than it is right now.

But again, that's what I keep telling you, you only view things in a vacuum, not taking all realities into consideration.  

[CamWhoaaCam]

50 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

My point was less about what you'd do if you have to pick #1 and can't trade back, because you've made your point, you'd take the QB.  The point was if you also didn't believe a QB was worth it there, who would you then take?

Because you keep bashing me for saying I'd take a WR #1, but if a QB or trade back isn't an option, you still have to make the draft pick, that's why i was asking who you'd take in that situation.  You can't bash me for taking a WR there if you refuse to say who you'd then take instead, whether it be Hunter, one of the DL, or something else.

And it wouldn't matter of they had a successful rookie season, the same way people disregard what Stroud did last year, because they say (and rightfully so) that if you drop Stroud on the Panthers last year, he likely severely struggles given the team that was around him.  It's just more proof that you can't view things outside a vacuum, one player succeeding somewhere else doesn't mean you made the wrong pick yourself.

You keep arguing for a QB by saying that you're taking them because of the position, NOT the player.  It's just beyond comical at this point that you can't see that.  

If the team doesn't think Sanders, Ward, or some other QB grades out to be worth the risk at #1, then it doesn't matter how they end up doing with someone else.  Because us taking them at #1 if we didn't think they were worth it, would be a completely moronic situation, it's taking a player because of their position, not their abilities.

This franchise isn't a QB away from contending.  People want to solve all of our problems with a QB pick and think it's going to turn us into contenders in Year 1.  We're in a multi year re-build that hasn't even fully kicked off yet, forcing a pick because of their position is how you compound your issues and tank that player's chances for success from the start.

Until people realize and accept that, they're going to want to keep making picks based on need, not based on the players available.  You don't build a contending team by taking risks at the top of the draft every year because of your needs with no regards to the player's NFL projections.

3 QB's went in 2023 because of their position and team need, with disregard to their draft grades.

2 of them have already been benched in Year 2 and the 3rd is having a down year themselves.

How you can't see that there is a distinct chance that is repeating itself with this draft, when we're one of those teams who is in that situation, is utterly beyond me.

Just because you need a QB and they historically get taken in the Top 5 every year, doesn't mean you need to do that in a year you don't believe there is a QB worthy of the pick.

I'm VERY down on this year's QB class as Top 5 type of picks.  If we were at say 12, with a better roster, then yea, I'd be much more on board with taking that risk.  But we can't take a huge risk on these QB's when we have as many holes as we do, with no 2nd round pick.  If we did that and we miss, this franchise will be in such despair in a year or two that it would be unimaginably worse than it is right now.

But again, that's what I keep telling you, you only view things in a vacuum, not taking all realities into consideration.  

You can't tell me I view things in a vacuum when you're not willing to accept that others actually view Ward/Sanders as elite QB prospects.

 

Again look in the mirror before you judge others.

[onmyown]

On 10/29/2024 at 11:47 AM, PNW_PantherMan said:

Maxx Crosby after we get him in the package for Shedeur.

Fun fact we could’ve had Crosby instead of…Will Grier. But hometown hero and all.

Another fun fact, Zod was adamantly against it. Lol