With the first pick, don't draft a QB? Draft a DE? C'mon!

[tukafan21]

2 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

You literally just said Tmac would put up insane numbers if he was playing with Sanders and the Colorado offense.

 

Yet you are down on this QB class smh

Seriously, this is the exact post that makes me lose my damn mind, because you can't separate Collegiate game from the NFL.

You think college stats = NFL projections/ability

The college game is littered with MONSTER stats from QB's who never make it past NFL training camps onto a roster.  I'm not saying Sanders is like that of course, but just because him and the offense put up huge numbers, doesn't mean he's a surefire elite NFL prospect.

The fact that you can't or refuse to understand that, is why anything you say is severely flawed.  Bash me for my love of T-Mac, but you just can't separate college box score stats from NFL projections, which is just asinine.

[tukafan21]

34 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

You literally just said Tmac would put up insane numbers if he was playing with Sanders and the Colorado offense.

 

Yet you are down on this QB class smh

The more I think about this one the crazier it gets

Basically what you’re saying is that because I think Sanders and Colorado’s staff is better than Fifita (Arizona’s QB) and our staff, and thus T-Mac would put up huge numbers there………

That means I shouldn’t think it’s a down year for QB’s in this class!!?!?!

Do you even hear yourself and how crazy that sounds with takes like that?  

I’d bet there are a good 25 teams I could say he’d put up bigger stats with this year than with us, does that mean I should then think this should be the greatest QB class of all time?

[CamWhoaaCam]

33 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Seriously, this is the exact post that makes me lose my damn mind, because you can't separate Collegiate game from the NFL.

You think college stats = NFL projections/ability

The college game is littered with MONSTER stats from QB's who never make it past NFL training camps onto a roster.  I'm not saying Sanders is like that of course, but just because him and the offense put up huge numbers, doesn't mean he's a surefire elite NFL prospect.

The fact that you can't or refuse to understand that, is why anything you say is severely flawed.  Bash me for my love of T-Mac, but you just can't separate college box score stats from NFL projections, which is just asinine.

WTF!

 

You can only judge these prospects from their college tape. Bro you sound cray cray right now.

 

How else are we supposed to judge them?

[tukafan21]

6 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

WTF!

 

You can only judge these prospects from their college tape. Bro you sound cray cray right now.

 

How else are we supposed to judge them?

By literally what you said in this exact post, by their tape, not their stats.

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills talking to you when you say things like this.

saying someone would put up monster stats on another team doesn’t mean that makes players on said team better (or worse) NFL prospects.  There is literally ZERO correlation between the two because the college game is so different and statistically offensively biased to begin with

It really is not a hard concept to grasp.

But I say he’d put up bigger stats on a better team, with a better QB, and coaching staff and your reaction is…. But how can you then say it’s a down QB class

Edited November 1 by tukafan21

[CamWhoaaCam]

1 minute ago, tukafan21 said:

By literally what you said in this exact post, by their tape, not their stats.

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills talking to you when you say things like this.

saying someone would put up monster stats on another team doesn’t mean that makes players on said team better (or worse) NFL prospects.

It really is not a hard concept to grasp.

But I say he’d put up bigger stats on a better team, with a better QB, and coaching staff and your reaction is…. But how can you then say it’s a down QB class

You would take a WR with the #1 pick.

 

Yet you on here trying to question people's football intelligence. Cmon bro look in the mirror.

[tukafan21]

8 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

WTF!

 

You can only judge these prospects from their college tape. Bro you sound cray cray right now.

 

How else are we supposed to judge them?

In fact, how is this for a Panthers related example……….

DJ Moore put up his best statistical season last year with the Bears and Fields as his QB.

Did that mean Fields was an elite player or does it just mean DJ had a better QB and coaching staff than he previously had with the Panthers?

Well seeing as they then traded Fields who then got benched for Wilson despite having the Steelers win games with Fields starting….. I’m going to say it was the better QB/staff than what he previously had, not that it means the QB is amazing at the NFL level.

 

[tukafan21]

1 minute ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

You would take a WR with the #1 pick.

 

Yet you on here trying to question people's football intelligence. Cmon bro look in the mirror.

lol, this is rich coming from the guy who screamed all last offseason that Bryce was going to be an Elite QB in the NFL and that we’d be SB contenders last year.

Yep, let’s listen to your analysis of draft prospects, that makes total sense

[CamWhoaaCam]

1 minute ago, tukafan21 said:

lol, this is rich coming from the guy who screamed all last offseason that Bryce was going to be an Elite QB in the NFL and that we’d be SB contenders last year.

Yep, let’s listen to your analysis of draft prospects, that makes total sense

I was wrong on Bryce I admitted that a long time ago bud.

 

Did you remember me saying Jayden Daniels should be the #1 pick before the draft? I was right on that.

 

You win some you lose some, but you live to fight another day. 

 

But you saying you would take a WR with the #1 pick just shows you how out of touch with reality you are. Use that #1 pick as leverage to trade back and possibly still get Tmac + picks. That's what a smart GM would do. Taking a WR with the #1 pick when you don't even have a QB would be stupid!

 

 

[tukafan21]

5 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

You would take a WR with the #1 pick.

 

Yet you on here trying to question people's football intelligence. Cmon bro look in the mirror.

Oh, and yes, I’d take a WR first in this upcoming draft, but again, that’s not in a vacuum

I wouldn’t have taken him over the QBs this past year or likely the ones next year either.

It’s all relative to who is available in a specific draft, and I don’t think any of the QB’s are worth the risk at #1 this year.

Also the fact that you’ve said you would take T-Mac #2 but scoff at him going #1 is just in itself, super weird.  How you can justify a player at #2 but not #1 solely because of their position and with complete disregard to the other players available, is absolutely crazy town talk

[tukafan21]

Just now, CamWhoaaCam said:

I was wrong on Bryce I admitted that a long time ago bud.

 

Did you remember me saying Jayden Daniels should be the #1 pick before the draft? I was right on that.

 

You win some you lose some, but you live to fight another day. 

 

But you saying you would take a WR with the #1 pick just shows you how out of touch with reality you are. Use that #1 pick as leverage to trade back and possibly still get Tmac + picks. That's what a smart GM would do. Taking a WR with the #1 pick when you don't even have a QB would be stupid!

 

 

Really?  Back to this again?

How many times have I said that I’d prefer to trade back from #1?

Too many to count, but as I’ve pointed out, that’s going to be much easier said than done, as once we signal we want to trade back, teams will know we don’t want any of the QBs and they’d target the 2nd pick in a trade instead.

All of my “T-Mac at #1” talk has been discussed under two circumstances… the first being that no QB or DE pop before the draft, and that we can’t trade back.

But again, I know you don’t like to actually read that stuff when I say it, as I’ve said it numerous times.

[CamWhoaaCam]

1 minute ago, tukafan21 said:

Oh, and yes, I’d take a WR first in this upcoming draft, but again, that’s not in a vacuum

I wouldn’t have taken him over the QBs this past year or likely the ones next year either.

It’s all relative to who is available in a specific draft, and I don’t think any of the QB’s are worth the risk at #1 this year.

Also the fact that you’ve said you would take T-Mac #2 but scoff at him going #1 is just in itself, super weird.  How you can justify a player at #2 but not #1 solely because of their position and with complete disregard to the other players available, is absolutely crazy town talk

Because you control the draft with the #1 pick. Everyone has all eyes on you to take the best prospect in the draft. Taking a WR with the #1 pick is dumb unless you have a QB already in place. We don't have a QB!

 

The #2 pick is fair game because that likely means either Sanders or Ward are off the board. If Ward goes #1 and Sanders doesn't want to play here you go for the next best prospect. Tmac is in my top 5 list of prospects. 

 

I never said we should take him #2 overall, but I could accept it if that was the case.

 

 

[tukafan21]

1 minute ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Because you control the draft with the #1 pick. Everyone has all eyes on you to take the best prospect in the draft. Taking a WR with the #1 pick is dumb unless you have a QB already in place. We don't have a QB!

 

The #2 pick is fair game because that likely means either Sanders or Ward are off the board. If Ward goes #1 and Sanders doesn't want to play here you go for the next best prospect. Tmac is in my top 5 list of prospects. 

 

I never said we should take him #2 overall, but I could accept it if that was the case.

 

 

Okay, I'm back at my computer so easier to respond to your nonsense now.........

You attack my football intelligence, but you are completely unable to look at anything in reality, you live in this vacuum where you only see letters and numbers on a sheet of paper and think you can do anything you want to do with no regards to what other teams would want to do.

You say taking a WR with the #1 pick is dumb unless you have a QB in place.

My response to that is you don't take a QB #1 overall when they aren't a good enough prospect to justify taking them there.

One is judging the player by who you think they will be at the NFL level, one is judging them by the position they play and nothing else.  People can disagree with someone's evaluation of a player, but you don't, you just look at their positions and stats in a vacuum.

You say that you control the draft if you have the #1 pick, but you don't.  You can want to make a trade all you want, but if another team doesn't want to make a trade with you, then you don't control the draft, all you control is who you can take with said #1 pick.  

The 2023 draft is a PERFECT example of this

The Bears tried to trade with the Colts and Texans before us, but neither felt it was worth giving up additional assets in a down QB draft, when they knew a QB they would be wiling to draft would fall to where they were at.  If we weren't absurdly stupid to make that trade, the odds are the Bears wouldn't have been able to make one and would have ended up taking a non QB there themselves.

We're in the same situation.  Once we signal that we want to trade the pick, it tells the world that we don't think any of the QB's are worth that pick for us, because if we did, obviously we'd draft them.

If teams KNOW we're not taking a QB, they have zero motivation to trade with us to take the QB they want, they would just target the #2 pick, knowing the QB they want would still be there.  Sure we may make a trade in the end, but since the discussion is who you would take at #1 if we have to, there's literally no point in talking about trades here, even if that's everyone preference.

You can disagree with me on my view that none of these QB's are worth taking #1, that's totally fair.  But to attack me for saying I'd take T-Mac instead is just nonsense given my view on this year's QB class.  

If I told you right now that you can't choose a QB (as again, that's my viewpoint, that none are worth it in this class there) and you can't trade back and had to take someone 1st overall... who are you taking?

Say you'd take a QB, that's fair, but attacking me for "wanting to draft a WR #1" when I've clearly stated I don't view any of the QB's as being worth taken there, is just nonsense as you can't just pass on a draft pick, you still have to take someone.

So again, I'll end it asking you the same question... Put yourself in my shoes for a second and just pretend that you agree that none of the QB's are worth the #1 pick for us.  Besides saying you'd then make a trade, as it takes two to tango, if you HAD to select someone at #1 and you were in my shoes and agree no QB is worth it, who would you take?

To me, once you remove QB from the equation, and since I don't see an elite pass rusher in this class either, it comes down to two players, T-Mac and Hunter.

So it's not about me wanting to "draft a WR #1", it's about me looking at the players I think make sense at drafting in the Top 5 in general, looking at our roster, and taking the player I think makes the most sense.  And at that point, for me, it just happened to be a WR.

It's called evaluating a situation by looking at everything involved, not just their position or stats, which is what you do.

[ForJimmy]

1 hour ago, tukafan21 said:

Yes, NAU "shut him down" by literally triple teaming him on almost every snap, I don't care how good you are, when you're triple teamed and your QB is playing poorly and behind an OL that gives you all of 2 seconds to make a play, that WR isn't going to do anything that game unless your coaching staff schemes him up to get quick passes, which they didn't.  

Our Arizona boards have been losing their poo all season over how bad the staff is using him and their play designs/calls.  

And as I've said numerous times, QB's don't get mocked by draft grades, those same experts that had Young and Stroud at the top of those mock drafts also openly admitted they didn't have them graded that high, same as this year's class.

Also as I've said numerous times, look at the position label or what they say about Hunter in those mock drafts, they almost all have him listed as CB and/or discuss him as a CB in their breakdown of him, because it's his better side of the ball and where he's more likely to play. 

Arizona should have more than enough talent vs NAU to prevent their star WR from being triple teamed every play. He is a very good WR with measurables you can’t coach. I’m not taking anything from him I just don’t think he is one you take with pick 1.

QBs get mocked above their grades because they are one of the most important positions in all of sports. WRs can get taken out of games, but a great QB can’t. 
 

If Hunter goes in the top 5, they are using him as an offensive weapon while maybe playing him in some prevent packages if any at all. He is a playmaker that has great ball skills and is explosive with the ball in his hands. I’ve seen a lot of mocks having the Pats take him at pick 1 or 2 as a weapon for Maye.

[tukafan21]

2 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Arizona should have more than enough talent vs NAU to prevent their star WR from being triple teamed every play. He is a very good WR with measurables you can’t coach. I’m not taking anything from him I just don’t think he is one you take with pick 1.

QBs get mocked above their grades because they are one of the most important positions in all of sports. WRs can get taken out of games, but a great QB can’t. 
 

If Hunter goes in the top 5, they are using him as an offensive weapon while maybe playing him in some prevent packages if any at all. He is a playmaker that has great ball skills and is explosive with the ball in his hands. I’ve seen a lot of mocks having the Pats take him at pick 1 or 2 as a weapon for Maye.

Yes we should have the talent to prevent that, the problem is we don't.  The new coaching staff did not do a good job at replacing the offensive players we lost from last year.  I can't stress enough how bad the rest of our offensive players are.

And the problem isn't as much the other weapons anyways as much as the offensive line.  We basically have the college equivalent of the Panthers line last year, our QB is running for his life almost immediately after the snap, when you combine that with double and triple coverage (plus the QB just playing awful on top of it), no matter how good the WR is, he's not going to be able to get open that quickly to get him the ball.

And if any team is planning on drafting Hunter in the Top 5 as a WR who only gets used periodically on defense, they're going to severely regret it in a few years, it needs to be the other way around.  He's rail thin and already keeps getting hurt in college, he's not going to last as a WR at the next level.  

I can't knock anyone saying to take Hunter as CB over T-Mac, but if anyone is taking him as a WR over either T-Mac or Burden, I think they're making a big mistake.