Why so many teams are switching to the 3-4 and what it means for the Panthers

[scpanther22]

There is an offense that often gets overlooked that quietly, except for smart coaches, that has influenced the "spread" and Wildcat moreso than many others.

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[panthers55]

Now lets discuss Fox and the Panthers. Has he always been a 4-3 guy. Actually not. When he was defensive backs coach for the Pittsburgh Steelers in 1989-1991 they ran a 3-4. When he was New York they switched from a 3-4 after Taylor retired to a 4-3 because they didn't have the personnel to run the 3-4 anymore. The same applied to the Panthers. When Fox got here he had a weak linebacking group and a better defensive line. Even then we were a much better group for a 4-3 than a 3-4. Here is another good article on the 3-4 versus the 4-3 and all its variations.

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/1/26/1269381/which-defensive-scheme-will-the

The Panthers as noted in the article run a Tampa 2 version now and largely a cover 2 or cover 3 previously. As the description notes it can be effective if the right personnel are in place. It requires good DEs, one ProBowl DT and extremely fast linebackers. I would add that it also requires very good physical safeties. By the way what are we definitely missing?? You don't have to look beyond the first requirement- A pro-bowl DT. Now can anyone say Albert Haynesworth. I knew that you could.........

Do the Panthers change their scheme inside the 20s. No they still use the Tampa 2 which doesn't employ blitzing much. The Tampa 2 operates a little differently in that the Tampa 2 is designed to double deep passes and keep things in front of them. Since there is no worry about deep coverage the safeties do play closer but that is an issue of field position not change in scheme. Meeks will venture out of the Tampa 2 into a cover 1 rover where the strong safety comes into the box to either blitz or help with runs support or tight end cover over the middle.

Are more NFL teams using a spread offense. Given that a spread look can take many forms including what we run when we use 2 wideouts and 2 TEs, then the answer would be yes. But lets be honest, teams have been using variations of a spread offense for 20 years given that the WCO offense is a variation of a spread offense. This is nothing new.

Are there going to be a dearth of players for a 4-3 with more teams going to a 3-4. Not really. When everyone ran a 4-3 we competed for the 4-3 DEs. Now many of those 4-3 DEs will be converted to 3-4 linebackers. But there are still the same numbers of teams and the same number of picks. The supply should honestly be the same. It may work to our advantage. With fewer teams running a 4-3 there will be less competition to find 4-3 linebackers who are too small to play in a 3-4. And normally we could find a DE or DT who is being traded because the team is going to a 3-4 and the guy doesn't fit their personnel. That assumes of course we would trade for someone this year.

[PantherBrew]

Cool, man.

I bet Foxy and Co. were thinking about this the whole time.

[Cyberjag]

When Fiz grows up he wants to be at least half as knowledgeable as P55, although until then he'll always act like he knows twice as much.

[Razzy]

Is there anyway to get statistics on the fox era panthers split up by 3-4 and 4-3 D's?

I like being a fan of a run first team personally.

[thejimmy]

We haven't done too well against 3-4 Ds, unfortunately. Last year, for instance, we lost to the entire AFC East, and all teams run a 3-4. Whenever we play Pittsburgh, we lose as well. There are other factors too, but I'm not sold on us playing against 3-4s.

[CatMan72]

Agree, the more teams follow the trend of re-tooling offenses to better defend the pass, the better our running game gets.

Just the other day, Charles Davis said NFL teams have gotten to the point of looking for 4 corners in the secondary instead of a run stuffing safety... advantage: us.

I don't think we need to switch to a 34 defense, but we do need to re-tool our secondary to make sure we have 4 guys back there than can cover. Harris is more of a traditional "in the box" safety, but last year there were occasions where we subbed Martin in to play pass coverage, so we're already adjusting. In the meantime, we should keep our offense as-is and cram the ball down the opponents throat.

[Lumps]

Wow, p55 pwning Fiz...

p55 you should post this in the smack forum.

[panthers55]

Wow, p55 pwning Fiz...

p55 you should post this in the smack forum.

Nice Avatar. :cheers2:

[Fiz]

Wow, p55 pwning Fiz...

p55 you should post this in the smack forum.

how am I being owned?

brb gonna copy paste a bunch of stuff from wikipedia that doesn't contradict anything I said in the original post.

[Fiz]

Do the Panthers change their scheme inside the 20s. No they still use the Tampa 2 which doesn't employ blitzing much.

never said they changed their scheme p55 sorry you can't read

Are more NFL teams using a spread offense. Given that a spread look can take many forms including what we run when we use 2 wideouts and 2 TEs, then the answer would be yes. But lets be honest, teams have been using variations of a spread offense for 20 years given that the WCO offense is a variation of a spread offense. This is nothing new.

never said more teams are using a spread, simply that passing rules have altered the way passing routes and QB play is being done.

Are there going to be a dearth of players for a 4-3 with more teams going to a 3-4. Not really.

never said there were!

are you specifically disagreeing with me or did you just want to copy and paste a bunch of stuff because if it's the latter congrats you did a great job.

Maybe you should make your own thread where you post the top results from google.

[Fiz]

When Fiz grows up he wants to be at least half as knowledgeable as P55, although until then he'll always act like he knows twice as much.

Wow, p55 pwning Fiz...

p55 you should post this in the smack forum.

seriously what are you two fuging on?

[Fiz]

p55 i took you off ignore because I thought you had posted something worthwhile. That's the last time I take cyberjag's obese ass seriously.

Since I know you didn't read it, and you sure seem willing to write (copy and paste) a lot, I will condense my argument into a simple form for you to respond to. Remember, if you want to argue with me, you need to address the specific points that I'm making.

3-4 defenses are spreading in the league.

This is due in part to two things

1. The rise in 3-4 ready talent from college ranks, due to defenses countering spread offenses, and people naturally becoming more athletic and making them possible.

2. With the few exceptions of brilliant 4-3 D coordinators, it allows the defense more creativity and more possibilities to blitz, hopefully negating the advantage created by QB friendly rule changes.

For the Panthers, this means that there will be more 4-3 talent available as teams move towards 3-4s (or 3-1-3 in the case of arizona etc), much like Ted Washington in the 90s. Certainly today no one as good as him would make his way to 7 teams.

[panthers55]

never said they changed their scheme p55 sorry you can't read

never said more teams are using a spread, simply that passing rules have altered the way passing routes and QB play is being done.

never said there were!

are you specifically disagreeing with me or did you just want to copy and paste a bunch of stuff because if it's the latter congrats you did a great job.

Maybe you should make your own thread where you post the top results from google.

Obviously you are upset that people think you were pwned and are trying to save face. But that was not my intent at all which is why I didn't respond to the comments when they were made. I was content to post and let it go but obviously you want a conflict. No surprise there.

My intent in posting not only the information I did but various links was so someone here who was not as familiar with the terms being used would have additional information if they cared. My opinion is this site is best used to discuss and inform rather than always bicker and amuse. There wasn't an intent to embarrass you or provide information to prove you were wrong.

As for your post, I appreciated your discussion. I enjoy discussing football rather than the myriad of personal attacks that masquerade as discussion here. Note that I didn't take you to task by cutting and pasting a bunch of information dissecting each element of your post. I actually find that annoying and only reluctantly do it after someone begins the process. And I don't really care to go on for pages with a back and forth debate now with personal attacks and mudslinging. If you want to PM to discuss this we can. But honestly I don't find the arguing and fighting to be amusing or worth pursuing. I would rather talk football. I wish we had more threads discussing the kind of things you brought up rather than many we do have.