Dave Canales is one and done.... part 2.

[The Natural]

I think you're severely downplaying the state of this roster. We were lacking in key positions to start with and horrendous luck with injuries has only made things worse. The offense with a competent QB has mostly been okay. There was no way to fix the team in a single off-season. I'm not saying we need a Matt Rhule "7 year plan" but one simply isn't enough.

[BIGH2001]

4 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

The broncos didn’t take the lead until 6:51 in the second quarter. Between the panthers scoring a td on the short field and that, the panthers offense didn’t get a first down. No one is claiming the defense is good, just that today they weren’t the issue. 

I can point out a coach has failed to do something he was hired to do, regardless of whether or not it’s possible. I agree he’s unfixable but no one put a gun to Canales head and made him take this job. 

At this point an argument needs to be made to keep him around, and so far that’s mostly “well the defense is bad too and it’ll look bad to fire another coach and he has t had a high first round draft pick yet.”

either he can coach or he can’t and none of those arguments address that issue. He’s no longer a hotshit nfl coordinator; he’s a miserable disaster coaching one of the worst teams in nfl history. 

There were only two offensive drives after Denver tied it at 7 and one of those started on our 1 yard line. You can’t do anything with Bryce from the 1, lol. The second one was derailed by a penalty. We won two games last year because of the defense and this was the kind of game that could have been kept close if we had last year’s team. Again the coach can’t be blamed for this collection of poo that he was handed. 
 

He deserves an offseason and a draft where we actually have a high pick to see if he can start turning things around. I don’t know if he’s the guy or not but it’s easy to see that this roster is so deficient that no amount of coaching is going to make it look good. 

[electro's horse]

4 minutes ago, BIGH2001 said:

There were only two offensive drives after Denver tied it at 7 and one of those started on our 1 yard line. You can’t do anything with Bryce from the 1, lol. The second one was derailed by a penalty. We won two games last year because of the defense and this was the kind of game that could have been kept close if we had last year’s team. Again the coach can’t be blamed for this collection of poo that he was handed. 
 

He deserves an offseason and a draft where we actually have a high pick to see if he can start turning things around. I don’t know if he’s the guy or not but it’s easy to see that this roster is so deficient that no amount of coaching is going to make it look good. 

Yeah so defense wasnt the issue today. I agree. And “detailed by penalty” yeah poorly coached teams get penalties  

let me ask this a different way; could Canales give a coaching performance so bad this season he deserved to be fired, in yours eyes? If not there’s no real point in continuing this conversation. 

[BIGH2001]

2 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Yeah so defense wasnt the issue today. I agree. And “detailed by penalty” yeah poorly coached teams get penalties  

let me ask this a different way; could Canales give a coaching performance so bad this season he deserved to be fired, in yours eyes? If not there’s no real point in continuing this conversation. 

No he probably can’t because it’s too hard for me to separate bad coaching from the roster deficiencies. That may change but it’s where I’m at now. This team is in complete tear down and rebuild mode and it’s disingenuous to pin our record on bad coaching at this point. You’re just ignoring all of the obvious talent a depth holes this team has to make a point and it’s really detracting from your argument. 

[strato]

31 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

The broncos didn’t take the lead until 6:51 in the second quarter. Between the panthers scoring a td on the short field and that, the panthers offense didn’t get a first down. No one is claiming the defense is good, just that today they weren’t the issue. 

I can point out a coach has failed to do something he was hired to do, regardless of whether or not it’s possible. I agree he’s unfixable but no one put a gun to Canales head and made him take this job. 

At this point an argument needs to be made to keep him around, and so far that’s mostly “well the defense is bad too and it’ll look bad to fire another coach and he has t had a high first round draft pick yet.”

either he can coach or he can’t and none of those arguments address that issue. He’s no longer a hotshit nfl coordinator; he’s a miserable disaster coaching one of the worst teams in nfl history. 

I usually agree with you but without going into that novel, the premise that Canales would fix Bryce or bust is flat out off base. 

We don't know what was said in those meetings before he gets hired and what assurances were given but I would bet, if I bet, just about anything that there was no guarantee of fixing Bryce Young attached to the getting job. (lol getting the job) The best effort at rehabbing him? Oh yeah, I would certainly think that was a part of it. What is wrong with him? That had to be asked and I'd love to know what was said. 

But there was also a part that involved, what if he can't be fixed? And I hope and believe that some candor regarding that bought Canales some equity. 

There is a part two of the proposition and that was what if Bryce doesn't respond as you hope? Then what? You know that was in play, it had to be. 

So let's see that. 

 

Edited October 28 by strato

[electro's horse]

Just now, BIGH2001 said:

No he probably can’t because it’s too hard for me to separate bad coaching from the roster deficiencies. That may change but it’s where I’m at now. This team is in complete tear down and rebuild mode and it’s disingenuous to pin our record on bad coaching at this point. You’re just ignoring all of the obvious talent a depth holes this team has to make a point and it’s really detracting from your argument. 

I’m not ignoring anything. You seem to think I’m expecting wins, which isn’t the case. I’m just looking for competent offensive performances.

To put this another way, the panthers defense went from worst in the league in 2001 to a top three unit in 2002. They didn’t have a great win loss total (way better than this poo lmao) but it was clear the team was moving in the right direction. Panthers were the worst team in the league last year and look even worse this year. 

The defense was gutted to improve the offense, and yeah having Marcus Mariota light you up sucks but that doesn’t mean the offense gets a pass for scoring only a pity touchdown in the game. 

and if we’re being honest, shouldn’t a competent offense score more points with a terrible defense because they have to keep up? Hasn’t been the case with the panthers across multiple QBs, with one exception.

[ForJimmy]

23 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

The best looking rookie was waived from the roster and placed on the PS

And no one picked him up in the entire league. Still signed by us and now is on our active roster. 

[BIGH2001]

2 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

I’m not ignoring anything. You seem to think I’m expecting wins, which isn’t the case. I’m just looking for competent offensive performances.

To put this another way, the panthers defense went from worst in the league in 2001 to a top three unit in 2002. They didn’t have a great win loss total (way better than this poo lmao) but it was clear the team was moving in the right direction. Panthers were the worst team in the league last year and look even worse this year. 

The defense was gutted to improve the offense, and yeah having Marcus Mariota light you up sucks but that doesn’t mean the offense gets a pass for scoring only a pity touchdown in the game. 

and if we’re being honest, shouldn’t a competent offense score more points with a terrible defense because they have to keep up? Hasn’t been the case with the panthers across multiple QBs, with one exception.

We’ve been competent in 3/5 games that Dalton started. I’m not sure what you expect exactly. Our best QB is in his late 30s and we are his fourth stop as a backup since he last had a regular starting job. Firing a coach after one season with this roster accomplishes nothing. Are you also firing Callahan in Tennessee since he’s not doing any better? 

[CPF4LIFE]

22 minutes ago, BIGH2001 said:

There were only two offensive drives after Denver tied it at 7 and one of those started on our 1 yard line. You can’t do anything with Bryce from the 1, lol. The second one was derailed by a penalty. We won two games last year because of the defense and this was the kind of game that could have been kept close if we had last year’s team. Again the coach can’t be blamed for this collection of poo that he was handed. 
 

He deserves an offseason and a draft where we actually have a high pick to see if he can start turning things around. I don’t know if he’s the guy or not but it’s easy to see that this roster is so deficient that no amount of coaching is going to make it look good. 

You could say no amount of coaching is gonna help with better QB play until you just bring in an elite talent. This is back to back years bringing in a staff to fix that position.

[electro's horse]

1 minute ago, BIGH2001 said:

We’ve been competent in 3/5 games that Dalton started. I’m not sure what you expect exactly. Our best QB is in his late 30s and we are his fourth stop as a backup since he last had a regular starting job. Firing a coach after one season with this roster accomplishes nothing. Are you also firing Callahan in Tennessee since he’s not doing any better? 

I don’t know. I haven’t watched those games. 

they probably dog walk the panthers tho

[X-Clown]

1 hour ago, electro's horse said:

bryce was his choice. As a matter of fact, he said Bryce was one of the main reasons he took the job.

You can’t possibly believe that this is actually true and not complete lip service 

[electro's horse]

Just now, X-Clown said:

You can’t possibly believe that this is actually true and not complete lip service 

Again, no one forced him to take the job. and again, no one else considered him for it. 

[Donald LaFell]

I’m out of ideas, I don’t even know how to respond because I feel like every possibility has the same chance of blowing up and ending up in the same spot. 

[electro's horse]

9 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

You could say no amount of coaching is gonna help with better QB play until you just bring in an elite talent. This is back to back years bringing in a staff to fix that position.

That’s not the point. 

The Panthers need someone who has a good eye for talent, especially with the draft. The best rookie player on the team (I think most of us would agree) was waived. Doesn’t fill me with confidence he’s the guy to lead the rebuild.