Dave Canales is one and done.... part 2.

[ForJimmy]

13 minutes ago, X-Clown said:

Come on fiz, I know you have been against the Canales hire from the jump and that's fine, but you can't tell me you actually believe this was a top 5 defense last year. They allowed the fourth most points in the league and were dead last in takeaways and sacks. You can cite the yards allowed, but just like 2010, offenses could pretty much relax for most of the second half and run the ball because this team had no hope of scoring.  This year was pretty much fuged from the get go because of all the roster decisions from the last 2-3 years that have come to roost. It's that simple. 

 

Yeah the biggest fallacy is our defense being great last year and suddenly "gutted" this offseason.  Our defense couldn't stop the run last year.  Then we lost Burns, gained Clowney and Wonnum, lost Luvu, gained Jewell, Lost Bell, gained Fuller, lost Donte, gained Dane, also gained Robinson on the DL.  The problem is our injuries... DB, Wonnum, Dane, Shaq, Jewell, Clowney, Fuller and Tuttle all have missed significant time with some missing the whole season.  That's 8 players who were all penciled to be starters on a team with no depth. 

[electro's horse]

46 minutes ago, X-Clown said:

Come on fiz, I know you have been against the Canales hire from the jump and that's fine, but you can't tell me you actually believe this was a top 5 defense last year. They allowed the fourth most points in the league and were dead last in takeaways and sacks. You can cite the yards allowed, but just like 2010, offenses could pretty much relax for most of the second half and run the ball because this team had no hope of scoring.  This year was pretty much fuged from the get go because of all the roster decisions from the last 2-3 years that have come to roost. It's that simple. 

 

I think they were a very good defense last year that was actively hampered by the offense, far more than this years offense is hurt by the defense. I find the argument about the defense holding Canales back funny because it’s not like the 2024 panthers offense is going up against defenses that have had any rest. 

sure, number numbers I get it. At the end of the day, moves were made for one side of the ball at the expense of the other, Dave Canales was involved in these decisions, and both the offense and defense are considerably worse if you take away what’s looking like a complete fluke against the raiders. 

Canales is not exempt for blame for this. He cannot use the team he had a hand in constructing as a way to escape fault. It’d be one thing if there was any improvement in the offense from last year, but I don’t really think anyone can say there has been. Certainly not any that justifies the overall regression of the team. 

Edited October 28 by electro's horse

[Ghostofdelhomme]

2 hours ago, CRA said:

 

Andy Reid basically slept walked to double digit wins with a vet QB who wouldn't take shots downfield pre Mahomes.   

That’s funny, Alex Smith invented the tyreek bombs. 

[thennek]

I don't know if Canales is 'it' of not, but I am not confident Tepper would find anyone else that is better.  I think most of the 'good ones' would run far away from anything to do with the Panthers.  Tepper has a terrible reputation.  

[CRA]

33 minutes ago, Ghostofdelhomme said:

That’s funny, Alex Smith invented the tyreek bombs. 

Alex Smith was literally nicknamed Captain Checkdown.  I call it risk adverse.  That was Teddy B too. 

some passes to a wide open Hill (who wasn't really respected yet when they played together).....aren't risky throws.  

 

[PantherGuy]

If we fire Dave after 1 season we will have to dip into college D-2 ranks to find our next one. You just can't do it.

[CRA]

1 minute ago, PantherGuy said:

If we fire Dave after 1 season we will have to dip into college D-2 ranks to find our next one. You just can't do it.

only 32 jobs in the world and Tepper cuts big pay checks. 

it worked for him in soccer largely.  Which probably isn't helping on the football side given a new coach every year is producing better results.  

[philit99]

Here is why I somewhat agree with the OP. This is a very good offensive line, Young will not get better offensive line play elsewhere, and if he can’t make decisions in 2.5 seconds or less, he will not play in the NFL. I still haven’t seen him throw the ball away to save a sack, or passed the chains on 3rd or 4th down calls. At this point, that is on the HC. Call plays that are at the distance you need. Yesterday I saw way, way to many East-West plays, not many north south.

[SOJA]

there has to be some improvement moving forward with Canales. He's a rookie HC so I expected growing pains but the offense is regressing and the team doesn't seem prepared.

We have a loser mentality and culture here, largely thanks to David Tepper's decisions. every other team in the league licks their chops to play us bc they know they are going to dogwalk us and if they go up by 10 points the game is over. 

I think what we truly need is a culture builder here: Dan Campbell, Jim Harbaugh, Mike Vrable type.

I will be interested to see what Tepper does come seasons end but if history tells us anything he's almost certain to make the wrong call no matter what he decides. 

 

[strato]

1 hour ago, ForJimmy said:

Yeah the biggest fallacy is our defense being great last year and suddenly "gutted" this offseason.  Our defense couldn't stop the run last year.  Then we lost Burns, gained Clowney and Wonnum, lost Luvu, gained Jewell, Lost Bell, gained Fuller, lost Donte, gained Dane, also gained Robinson on the DL.  The problem is our injuries... DB, Wonnum, Dane, Shaq, Jewell, Clowney, Fuller and Tuttle all have missed significant time with some missing the whole season.  That's 8 players who were all penciled to be starters on a team with no depth. 

When I used the word "gutted", if I did, it is in the context of a longer term neglect.

Without adding in the money freed up by not spending on Burns, without counting sending DJ Moore off for offense (? made no sense), traded Dante Jackson for offense, all that stuff... just looking at three years of draft picks plus one still to be paid 2nd round for 2025, I am putting the tally below. 

What is very glaring is that in the last three years the highest draft pick used on defense is #70 of 2022 which was traded for a defensive player (CJ Henderson). After that, you have #72 for Wallace, #76 and #80 which went for another defensive player (Gilmore) and a defensive draft pick (DJ Johnson).

THAT IS IT IN 3 YEARS.

#70, #72, #76, #80 Big whoop. Wait and add up everything that went offense draft wise. It is no wonder why the defense is hurting.

2022

#6 Icky

#38 Darnold

#70 CJ Henderson

2023

#9 Bryce Young

#39 Mingo

#61 Bryce Young

#76 S Gilmore

#80 DJ Johnson

2024

#1 Bryce Young

#32 X Legette

#46 Brooks

#72 Wallace

#101 Sanders

2025

#1? 

#33 Bryce Young

Those defensive picks add up to 254 points or something on the trade value chart. May run out of edit time trying to add the totals for those offensive picks, but it will be WELL over 10 times that when all is calculated. 

Edited October 28 by strato

[electro's horse]

1 minute ago, strato said:

When I used the word "gutted", if I did, it is in the context of a longer term neglect.

Without adding in the money freed up by not spending on Burns, without counting sending DJ Moore off for offense (? made no sense), traded Dante Jackson for offense, all that stuff... just looking at three years of draft picks plus one still to be paid 2nd round for 2025, I am putting the tally below. 

What is very glaring is that in the last three years the highest draft pick used on defense is #70 of 2022 which was traded for a defensive player (CJ Henderson). After that, you have #76 and #80 which went for another defensive player (Gilmre) and a defensive draft pick (DJ Johnson).

THAT IS IT IN 3 YEARS.

#70, #72, #76, #80 Big whoop. Wait and add up everything that went offense draft wise. It is no wonder why the defense is hurting.

2022

#6 Icky

#38 Darnold

#70 CJ Henderson

2023

#9 Bryce Young

#39 Mingo

#61 Bryce Young

#76 S Gilmore

#80 DJ Johnson

2024

#1 Bryce Young

#32 X Legette

#46 Brooks

#72 Wallace

#101 Sanders

2025

#1? 

#33 Bryce Young

 

Can’t wait for the defensive rebuild to be led by a guy who’s never had to select a defensive coordinator. 

Not sure if any bucs or Seahawks defensive coaches were in his circle jerk club. 

[CRA]

2 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Can’t wait for the defensive rebuild to be led by a guy who’s never had to select a defensive coordinator. 

Not sure if any bucs or Seahawks defensive coaches were in his circle jerk club. 

I think clearly we are haunted by the bro club that formed in Seattle.   So I guess we would need to look at Seattle during the Fitt/Morgan/Canales era to find who the good ole boy system will deem the great find. 

[Basbear]

Fitz, Thanks for bringing other topics with loads of input to the board!

 

After firing Rhule, wilks, Reich, and tabor within 2 years......even George steinbrenner would hesitate. I didn't want him and I believe you didn't either, but here we are...... You don't have to twist my arm, but the team has not shown improvement and most have already forgotten about his piss poor handling of BY among other new players in the preseason. The team still plays soft too, that pisses me off more than the record. Plus you know for a fact, he had to usher the words " I will fix BY " and hes either the same or worse than 2023.

Alllll that said, injuries have been back breaking, cap is a joke, and talent is bare...... Guess I should join the Panthers since this is a super soft move to say he deserves another year......(*depends on the ava pool of HCs)

[strato]

12 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Can’t wait for the defensive rebuild to be led by a guy who’s never had to select a defensive coordinator. 

Not sure if any bucs or Seahawks defensive coaches were in his circle jerk club. 

Yeah, I won't be arguing with you guys over this. Not sure what would ever make y'all happy short of getting Cam back.