Dave Canales is one and done.... part 2.

[bandu]

& LOL it does not matter what anyon̈e thinks all that matters in the grand scheme of things is what David Tepper thinks or let's say does ?

& David Tepper will more than likely make sure the Panthers draft another Qb with the #1 overall pick & keep who he thinks is a Qb whisperer in Dave Canales  to groom the young lad into a franchise Qb

& wether I like it or not this is what I see happening 

[strato]

14 minutes ago, bandu said:

i honestly hate to say this simply because DC is such a likeable guy.however , at the same time it was way way early & Canales should have never been hired in the first place to be an NFL Head Coach at this stage of his carrer   .now  if so , please explain to me what Canales has ever done in the past that would lead you to believe that he is qualified to be a good to above average head coach in the NFL not now but let's even say more importantly moving forward?

& I completely understand you desperately want some sembelance of stability & most people yes want that in their everyday life it makes perfect sense. however this is the NFL & unfortunately it's just the opposite of stabilty instead it's all about what have you done for me lately & winning  & not just for the coaches but everyone & I mean everyone involved

& btw I was never a fan of firing Reich mid season last year 

Okay you want me to make sense you have to back way up. I am a defensive run the ball do play action type. I don't need fancy. I like the pocket king type guys and even better if they can expand from there. Much better. 

I'm supposed to lie and say oh yeah he has the bona fides and is a QB whisperer?  Because we all know his history and it is a reach. 

He has whispered a couple of guys and done okay. None named Bryce and none that were rookies. 

My only thing is, no one else worked. The QB is a trainwreck and to blame this guy for that ignores the remedial (good) work he did with his mechanics. The evidence is there on that. Clearly there. 

I have not looked at a replay to check Young's actual mechanics; I expected to see better than when he last started a game. But they ran so much today and jumped him out by design and that isn't what I wanted to look at and just watching the game in real time you know... I didn't get to that level. 

But that is really it I guess, the level of Canales' involvement with Young and in the context of trying to look after an entire team - which he only had to do an offense once.. no doubt this is a jump. A leap.

But you can look for signs that people are doing something ( I see things). And if you felt like the 2023 issue was more than a one year fix then you maybe need to give it more than one year.

Get someone in place. Chuck Noll was somebody's coordinator. Madden was Al Davis' OL coach r something. Use Canales to head things up while you look for the guy you want, if it has to be that way. Just stop with the constant instability. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

We can't fire Canales or Morgan this year, we just can't. I personally don't think they are the problem. 

Our QB play is weak at best. Dalton is our best option to win but he's not the answer. 

IMO Morgan did well offensively in free agency. Defensively the free agents were supposed to compliment Brown. Without Brown they are average moves. 

Draft and Free Agency. 

Aside of Brooks, who hopefully plays soon, I think we hit on most of our draft choices especially the top 4 picks. Hopefully Coker continues to be a stolen Gem. 

Bottom line is we have to give them another season or two to get this team on track. 

Hiring and firing GMs and Head Coaches are only going to put us further down. 

[heel31ok]

7 hours ago, electro's horse said:

I made this thread earlier in the year after seeing the first two weeks of Canales Panthers. Those were disasters for the team and Bryce Young, and while it could be argued it was all due to Bryce, I think at this point we're seeing that's not the case. At the time I made that thread, I never thought in a million years Tepper would let Dave bench Bryce. He was benched the following Monday. A competent NFL veteran gave us some hope that Canales' system could actually work. In retrospect, those two games were against two of the worst defenses in the league, both teams that might have their head coaches fired by the end of the year, and are unfortunately looking more like statistical noise instead of a trend. 

over the past five weeks, the panthers have not just been bad, but uncompetitive. At no point past the second quarter has it felt like this team had a chance (maybe against the Falcons), and even today against the Broncos I think we all knew that 7 point lead wasn't going to last very long. Teams very quickly figured out what Canales likes to do and began taking it away. I think the Commanders and Bears were the best examples of this, and that was with a QB who isn't limited physically like Bryce. The team simply cannot compete as coached and comprised.

Today, it really felt like the Broncos defense went easy on them. Lots of base packages, not a lot of exotic coverages, didn't really look like the broncos even blitzed that much. I think this is because 9 games into the season, teams have enough film on the Panthers to know they don't need to do anything special to beat us. We don't have the players to overcome the coaching, and vice versa. Obviously Bryce isn't an NFL player, and I don't think there's anyone except the most dead end supporters who think otherwise, but the pieces are there on offense to produce more than we saw today. And let's have some self respect over the coming days and not talk about Bryce's cumulative stats. That was a classic Bryce Young garbage time spectacular. 

So where does this leave us with Dave Canales? I am going to list some of the reasons he was hired, how that has fared, and then summarize it with how this translates moving forward. 

Whiz Kid Offense Coordinator On the Rise - After getting burned twice by Ben Johnson, both for his All Star Coaching Staff and as head coach, you could see the appeal of trying to get the next Ben Johnson before he's Ben Johnson. Buying low early on a product that takes off is a good way for people to think you're smarter than you are in his line of business. The arguments for this mainly consisted of connecting dots from where he'd been and how their offensive production was, focusing more on the good years than the bad, of which he was around for plenty in Seattle. 

At the halfway point, this is one of the most anemic offenses in the league. Take the Raiders game out of the equation, and we're scoring about 12.5 points a game. You could even be more precise and take away points scored in complete garbage time: obviously the Broncos had called off all the dogs by the time the Panthers scored their second TD today. And we saw other horrifying things today like the inability to get plays in on time. Twice in three plays, with the game still theoretically in reach, is inexcusable. They could have easily had a 3rd DoG on that same drive. Even when you're bad, this is the kind of simple poo that you've got to have locked down. 

As it stands, this offense is generally getting worse every week by any metric you want to look at. The saints players might be approaching mutiny against Dennis Allen, but I can't imagine they'll pass up a chance to curb stomp the Panthers again; remember, Carolina is where other players hit their contract bonuses. The next two games are probably the easiest left on the Panthers schedule. 

QB Whisperer - this was always the least convincing for me. Geno Smith was a 9 year veteran when he got to start in 2023. He'd been with the Seahawks for 2 seasons before so he knew all the players, coaches, playbook etc. He wasn't just someone off the street. Baker Mayfield is doing fine without Canales this year, and had fine seasons with the Browns before he got to Carolina. He even had a fine game with the Rams after getting off a plane and being handed a jersey against the Raiders. From the macro level, it looks like the only thing that can stop Mayfield is being the quarterback for the Panthers. 

Bryce looked horrific in weeks 1 and 2, and after executing the opening game drive (scripted, practiced all week, short field, mostly dink and dunk behind the line of scrimmage) he couldn't muster a first down until late in the 3rd/early 4th. Bryce looks helpless. The deep game is almost exclusively sideline routes to cut down on the risks of interception. He isn't able to push the defense across the middle at the 2nd and 3rd level, presumably because he can't read the defense. Bryce still looks clueless as evidenced by him jogging out of bounds at the end of the 2nd half. Whatever Dave is whispering to Bryce, it hasn't helped, and frankly I'd like it to stop.

What the Panthers do with the QB situation moving forward isn't very interesting to me. Andy is what he is at this point in his career; a backup who can start 1-2 games, but he's just not going to be able to hold up over the season. Bryce simply cannot play the position in the NFL. 

Have to hire them before they're ready because of the team's reputation - i don't necessarily disagree with this. Panthers are an organizational disaster and no candidate with promise is going to want to hitch their wagon to this mess. But part of gambling is losing, and if you're taking bets on who you think is going to become a good HC, you run the risk of being wrong in your prognostication. At this point, Canales is not a good head coach. The team is not prepared to play on Sundays. And he's not even had to pick a defensive coordinator yet; Tepper didn't let Evero leave after Reich and co were fired, which is frankly unheard of in the NFL and a really good way to alienate potential coaches in the future. 

Coaches learn how to be good coaches by being in good organizations. Canales had one year as a coordinator in a very stable organization with very good players on offense. Where is this guy going to learn how to coach? To get the team ready during the week? To make adjustments at halftime? To manage the players? And moving forward, how is he going to get better? Has anyone seen anything to suggest he's going to learn on the job? Or that after a season, fans and players should be okay with the 2nd year head coach learning on the job? 

Sure, we might have to hire coaches a year early, but we need to be prepared to say the pie needs more time in the oven. And unfortunately, we can't just send Dave back to Tampa for six months in the hopes he picks up more knowledge.

Again, one team requested an interview with him. Tepper probably overthought this.

Conclusion - The reasons he was hired and the stated goals for his tenure have all flamed out. He's not a QB whisperer who knew the secret to fixing Bryce. He isn't some offensive guru or genius playcaller. He's shown he isn't ready to be a head coach. Tepper wanted the next Ben Johnson, and instead he got the first half of 2022 Ben McAdoo. 

I'll speak more about what I want for this team to do moving forward, but it involves a complete tear down and it's going to require some people with NFL experience and a deep rolodex to fix. Canales isn't this person. The money doesn't matter to Dave, and he's shown in the past he will cut bait with a coach when its looking like they're not up to the task. Sticking with Canales for another year continues with the delusions that this team is close, or just one player away, or blah blah blah whatever. Yeah sure Carolina is on its 5th coach in 3 years and that sounds awful, but is it really that different than 6th coach in 4 years?

Canales was hired as a hot up and coming offensive coordinator and that hasn't panned out. His next job audition is to be the man to rebuild the Panthers, and he is doing it right now, and he has shown nothing to indicate he's the man for that job. 

No...

[Mage]

Dave Canales looks and talks like a person who has lost confidence too.

[Ricky Prickles]

10 hours ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

yea he sucks. canales fanboys of 2024 = bryce fanboys of 2023. just blind faith for no reason

There's no fan boy, it's just give the mother fugger a shot to see if he can grow as a coach and improve before seasons end. Keep firing coaches before the seasons up or after only one season and we will not have a chance at anybody at all worth a poo because they will fear to be fired half way through the season or after year 1. Someone saying we have to hold onto him a bit more does not necessarily make them a canales fan boy, it just makes them thinking rational about being able to hire anyone else worth a damn and seeing if this dude we have can grow as a head coach. Everyone is always so quick to call someone a "fan boy" if they don't want to immediately join them with torches and pitchforks to storm the castle after a handful of shitty games. 

[Ricky Prickles]

4 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

We can't fire Canales or Morgan this year, we just can't. I personally don't think they are the problem. 

Our QB play is weak at best. Dalton is our best option to win but he's not the answer. 

IMO Morgan did well offensively in free agency. Defensively the free agents were supposed to compliment Brown. Without Brown they are average moves. 

Draft and Free Agency. 

Aside of Brooks, who hopefully plays soon, I think we hit on most of our draft choices especially the top 4 picks. Hopefully Coker continues to be a stolen Gem. 

Bottom line is we have to give them another season or two to get this team on track. 

Hiring and firing GMs and Head Coaches are only going to put us further down. 

You actually get it. OP's hate for Canales is due to Canales relion and politics combined with the fact that Canales was a real sorry excuse for a husband in years past before he decided to change himself and grow up. OP has apparently never done anything shameful or regretful in his life. 

[Jon Snow]

Firing coaches too early is part of the reason the team is a patchwork of bad to terrible everywhere in the building and on the field. 

The coach cannot fix this crap in a couple of offseasons much less one. Even if Canales ends up fired, which I think he will, it doesn't help fix anything. But Tepper is going to Tepper so it doesn't matter what I think. 

[CRA]

LITERALLY, the primary reason an iffy hire was justified.....is he was pimped as a QB guru who could "fix" Bryce.   He gave us the worst version of Bryce and gave up on that 2 weeks in.   

So once you remove that from the equation, we literally just hired someone unqualified to be a HC  and no reason to hang your hat on the why.  1 year as a very meh OC in reality is his resume.   And he is being exactly that here. 

Forget the D, forget winning. You give a good O coach THIS OL....and they find better and more consistent offense than Canales.  He stinks. I don't care who the QB is.  

[Ghostofdelhomme]

It’s the Tampa Bay offense without Mayfield, Evans, and Godwin. What could go wrong?

[Mistuh Jones]

stop this dumb poo and let the man cook with an actual NFL caliber roster. Jesus effing christ 

[PappyMay]

give this team Jaboo and lets see how pumped and motivated they could be. The positivity would be contagious. 

[Daeavorn]

We can't fire Canales. We have to give him 3 years to try to build a team. Let him draft a QB with the 1st pick and see what he can do with a Shedur Sanders or Cam Ward.

[Panthering]

I truly do not see any angle here where you can lie this mess at Canales feet this season. There's certainly things to nitpick with him but he's so far from for biggest problems right now. Thankfully he'll be here next season and hopefully thereafter as well.