Stop the obsession with the QB position

[Donald LaFell]

1 hour ago, BrianS said:

OP does have a point, sort of.  But the snowball started down the hill way before a Reich / Darnold decision.  Using the 03 season as a guidepost isn't realistic either - the league is completely different now.

The inevitable problem is that you do need a really good QB to win a SB these days.  At any one time, there are probably only 15-20 good QB's in the league.  Thus, the problem the Panthers have.  They don't have one.

 

Yeah the 03 season led to some of the pass friendly rule changes. Watching that philly game is hilarious now. 

[PantherKyle]

You can't win a SB without a franchise QB. All that matters. Commanders D sucks and look at the excitement there. Can't agree here. 

[strato]

1 hour ago, TheMaulClaw said:

  I've watched this organization and this fanbase going crazy over the past few years, destroying everything that stands in the path of drafting the next Patrick Mahomes.  In this period of time we've traded our best players, traded our best picks, and fired our coaches all in attempt to find the next chosen qb in the NFL.  Meanwhile we're watching the two qbs we had before drafting Bryce play at a probowl level this year.  We apparently have an insatiable desire for suffering.

    Before we hired Reich, I made a case that we should keep Darnold and invest our assets into drafting receivers, secondary help, and adding beef to the lines.  We had played pretty well down the stretch two years ago, developed an identity, and were poised to be competing for a playoff spot the following season.  Many on the board had thought the same thing, but many on here have a superbowl or bust mentality, and are willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater.  

    It needs to stop.  We need to focus on the development of our team.  We're fortunate enough to have stumbled across a qb that can actually throw some NFL passes, and it should serve as a reminder that it will be easier to be a good team if were a good team with an experienced quarterback, then being a good team with a rookie qb that has a bad team.  

   Right now we've found a number one receiver, we see progress out of Legette, the Oline is playing well, and Chubba is dynamic.  Lets resign the players who have shown they can play. They all looked liked ass under Bryce.  We don't need a Patrick Mahomes, we only need a qb thats good enough to allow our players to show what they can do.  If you have a good team you don't need an all world qb, it would be nice, but we don't need it.  We didn't need it in 03.  

Lets fix this horrible defense, lets makes sure we have weapons, and lets roll with an experienced quarterback until we stumble across the opportunity to improve at the position without forcing it and decimating our franchise in the process.  Until then, lets make the playoffs next year.

I couldn't pie that enough. The SB or bust mentality is all or nothing, kind of like "perfection is the enemy of good".

You said it better than I could. I characterized it as impatience. And didn't say it this way but it is a shortcut mentality I think, in a way. Don't want to take the time to build, want it now. 

[Khyber53]

You have to build a team. And we haven't really been doing that for a while now.

We've been trying to build an idea. Not an identity, not a purpose, just the idea of one. Tepper wanted to transform us from a 4-3 defense to a 3-4, from a run heavy team to a passing team, one that relied on metrics and analytics rather than grit and field experience. 

And we became, well, soft, ineffective and nearly winless. And we really don't have much of a team or an identity or much of a chance anymore.

To misquote the Joker in Batman... "This team needs an enema."

We stripped what little we had left (and there wasn't much) when we traded up to take Bryce. And we had traded away assets for Darnold as well. We let McCaffrey go, and Reddick, and Luvu and the list just goes on. And all we got was a handful of sadly non-magical beans.

But back to the OP, yeah, you're right. Chasing a QB has been disastrous. So much so that you look at the horrible deal Cleveland made to get Happy Ending Watson and we've not done much better, except we aren't carrying his massive contract. And yet, somehow, even without that, we haven't had a lot of contract space.

 

[NorthTryon]

1 hour ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

So in other words we should have kept Wilks and Darnold?

 

Finally someone other than myself who recognized the real mistake. Not only would we have been set up for success we would still have DJ Moore and most likely another offensive weapon with that draft pick.

 

 

Screw you Tepper!

But, but, but WIlks was more of Fox and Rivera clone! Never mind the players were head over heels for him, we had extra draft capital, that was when we experienced the most success in franchise history, and he was a native son. Now they have their young offensive mind in Canales and nobody can steal him away, which was another bogus reason for not hiring Wilks(What if his OC has a good season and someone steals him). Look at what is happening in Houston and though someone may eventually make Bobby an offer, but for now they are crushing it with a defensive minded head coach and his OC handling the offense. But according to the Huddle and Tepper, that would never work and was a waste of time. Face palm emoticon!

[Davidson Deac II]

1 hour ago, ForJimmy said:

This is accurate but 1st round QBs have a higher chance of being good.  Rodgers, Allen, Tua, Jackson, Burrow, Stroud, Lawrence, Mahomes, Herbert, (possibly Daniels), Goff, Love, Darnold, Baker, Murray, and Stafford were all 1st rounders.  Which is 16 of the current starters and are decent QBs.  That doesn't include Williams, Nix, Maye, Richardson and Penix who the jury is still out on.

The problem is they will always be overdrafted, so you have to find a real diamond in the rough to get one later.  Yeah a lot of these guys have switched from their original teams, but they are all talented QBs drafted in the first round.  

I am assuming by top of the draft, he meant top five picks or maybe even top 2 or 3 picks.  No doubt that you are more likely to get a successful qb in the first round than the later rounds, that is true of all NFL positions.  I will see that this appears to the odd year where both of the top 2 qb's picked are playing fairly well, although the #2 looks significantly better than the number 1.  

[NAS]

I agree with the OP,  it’s better to build the overall team and insert a QB.  Constantly swinging and missing or reaching for a perfect QB is dooming the franchise to a decade of basement dwelling in the NFL. 

[strato]

29 minutes ago, NorthTryon said:

But, but, but WIlks was more of Fox and Rivera clone! Never mind the players were head over heels for him, we had extra draft capital, that was when we experienced the most success in franchise history, and he was a native son. Now they have their young offensive mind in Canales and nobody can steal him away, which was another bogus reason for not hiring Wilks(What if his OC has a good season and someone steals him). Look at what is happening in Houston and though someone may eventually make Bobby an offer, but for now they are crushing it with a defensive minded head coach and his OC handling the offense. But according to the Huddle and Tepper, that would never work and was a waste of time. Face palm emoticon!

The truth is to be successful at HC you have to command respect. Couple of random grab from the air examples... I know they are old some people here won't even know Buddy Ryan or Mike Martz.

Look at Mike Martz - offensive genius but not a leader of a football team. 

Buddy Ryan - defensive genius but not a leader of a football team.

Sure there are great X/O guys that are successful head coaches but that is just part of it. You will not succeed without the other qualities. Which is unique to the HC position in football as that X/O is what gets you ahead as a coordinator where most HC hirees are pulled from. Every guy that rose in the NFL knows his X/Os at a pretty high level, that's a given. Not everyone has the strategic creativity, but that alone won't get it done. 

You just don't have be a great X/O guy to get that respect. It mostly comes from telling the truth, treating people fair, and displaying integrity and courage to do what is right when stuff gets tough. I have a hard time defining it but we know it when we are exposed to it with people. 

I know Wilks had it (he had only excelled as a DB coach, he had no great coordinator chops).

 I really think Canales may have enough to get the ball rolling before he flames out. I hope. Asserting himself and getting Bryce removed from affecting the outcome of games was major display of leadership. Really alpha. 

He kind of reminds me of Dick Vermeil a little. Just intense and driven. 

Edited October 17 by strato

[ForJimmy]

10 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

I am assuming by top of the draft, he meant top five picks or maybe even top 2 or 3 picks.  No doubt that you are more likely to get a successful qb in the first round than the later rounds, that is true of all NFL positions.  I will see that this appears to the odd year where both of the top 2 qb's picked are playing fairly well, although the #2 looks significantly better than the number 1.  

I’m good with trading back and I’m also good with BPA 

[ForJimmy]

1 hour ago, csx said:

They haven't always. This is the madness that is being suggested to stop. This trend isn't that old.

They just drafted 6 QBs in the first last year. They are going to keep getting overdrafted in the near future. 

[Jon Snow]

I hate to tell you this but it's not the fans that run the team. You are wasting your breath on fans. David Tepper is the Ringmaster of this circus and all we can do is watch. Whether you buy a ticket or peep under the tent it's still his circus and you are just an observer. 

[TheMaulClaw]

3 hours ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

So in other words we should have kept Wilks and Darnold?

 

Finally someone other than myself who recognized the real mistake. Not only would we have been set up for success we would still have DJ Moore and most likely another offensive weapon with that draft pick.

 

 

Screw you Tepper!

I definitely thought that would have been a good idea.

[TheMaulClaw]

1 hour ago, Jon Snow said:

I hate to tell you this but it's not the fans that run the team. You are wasting your breath on fans. David Tepper is the Ringmaster of this circus and all we can do is watch. Whether you buy a ticket or peep under the tent it's still his circus and you are just an observer. 

I agree, but we do have influence on the media here and the type of stories they put out, which in turn affect tepper

[CamWhoaaCam]

4 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

I definitely thought that would have been a good idea.

So did the entire team. Even the Nat'l media people were confused as to why we didn't hire Wilks.

 

The little success we had under Tepper he couldn't stand it because Wilks was a true alpha and had the players backing him.

 

Tepper walks out on the field he wasn't the big dawg anymore. Wilks was never going to get that position.