Would you trade for Justin Fields?

[CRA]

7 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Fields is a 1 read and run qb. If his first read isn't open he takes off, even when he doesn't need to. You cannot fix happy feet and lack of field vision.

gotta think some of that is him being on his 4th offense in 4 years. 

I mean, if there was a book of what shouldn't happen for a QB young to develop...there is a chapter there for Fields. 

[Jon Snow]

Just now, CRA said:

gotta think some of that is him being on 4th offense in 4 years. 

I mean, if there was a book of what shouldn't happen for a QB young to develop...there is a chapter there for Fields. 

That's the story of about every young qb drafted. They go to a bad teams and are thrown to the wolves. Fields is a gifted runner, but qb? Not so much. It's been what? 4 years since he was drafted? He's still struggling. I don't blame the team for passing on him because they sure as hell couldn't turn him into a franchise qb. I seriously doubt our current group can either. 

[CRA]

6 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

That's the story of about every young qb drafted. They go to a bad teams and are thrown to the wolves. Fields is a gifted runner, but qb? Not so much. It's been what? 4 years since he was drafted? He's still struggling. I don't blame the team for passing on him because they sure as hell couldn't turn him into a franchise qb. I seriously doubt our current group can either. 

I mean, that's not the story on every young QB drafted.  Most of the goats of the last decade sat and also had franchise stability on top of that.  The legit top tier passers.  Brady sat. Rodgers sat. Mahomes sat.  Brady and Rodgers have been outspoken on what teams do with young QBs.  Basically talking about teams like us, the Bears, etc. 

I'm not saying Fields would have been a top tier passer if he sat.  But it's hard to argue the model he got put through was going to bring out whatever the best of him would have been.  I've said the same for Bryce.  Whatever Bryce's ceiling was going to be (and I don't think it was much)....the Panthers essentially ensured he would never see it. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Fields takes care of the ball a lot more than Howell, however. We would need to know if Canales can break him of his Winston-esque gunslinger mentality. If we can't, that's going to be a problem 

In Fields 1st season he had 7 TDs and 11 ints with a QB rating of 73.2 and Howell was 21 and 21 which is 3x as many TDS but double the Ints with a QB rating of 78.9. Not to mention Howell almost had as many passing yards in 2023 (3946) than Fields had in 2 full seasons as a starter (4112) . 

While I agree 21 ints is excessive it doesn't mean a first year starter can't fix those issues. PEYTON MANNING had 28 ints in his first season as an NFL QB. 

Howell isn't as mobile but isn't a statue either.  We don't need a running QB we need a QB that can make the throws and guide a team.  IMO more of a Canales QB than Fields. 

If Daniels didn't fall into the Commanders lap than Howell is probably still their QB. 

Fields is going be benched for Wilson this weekend. It tells me Pittsburgh isn't happy with his performance.  Lost QB job in Chicago and demoted in Pittsburgh. 

I'd rather give Howell a look before Fields. 

[CPcavedweller]

14 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Repeat after me.  Canales is not some magical qb whisperer.   It was a fallacy from the jump. 

You clearly don’t understand what a fallacy is. There was data to support that Canales could aid in QB growth. I don’t know that there is enough data to say if he was the root cause or not. 
 

Personally, I think Canales can win here. Scoring 28 points in the NFL should win you 75% of your games. Our defense is gutted. 

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

In Fields 1st season he had 7 TDs and 11 ints with a QB rating of 73.2 and Howell was 21 and 21 which is 3x as many TDS but double the Ints with a QB rating of 78.9. Not to mention Howell almost had as many passing yards in 2023 (3946) than Fields had in 2 full seasons as a starter (4112) . 

While I agree 21 ints is excessive it doesn't mean a first year starter can't fix those issues. PEYTON MANNING had 28 ints in his first season as an NFL QB. 

Howell isn't as mobile but isn't a statue either.  We don't need a running QB we need a QB that can make the throws and guide a team.  IMO more of a Canales QB than Fields. 

If Daniels didn't fall into the Commanders lap than Howell is probably still their QB. 

Fields is going be benched for Wilson this weekend. It tells me Pittsburgh isn't happy with his performance.  Lost QB job in Chicago and demoted in Pittsburgh. 

I'd rather give Howell a look before Fields. 

Howell isn’t a FA and Fields is. Howell would be a good one to look at if he was, but I’m game for signing Fields this offseason if the price is right. 

[Jon Snow]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean, that's not the story on every young QB drafted.  Most of the goats of the last decade sat and also had franchise stability on top of that.  The legit top tier passers.  Brady sat. Rodgers sat. Mahomes sat.  Brady and Rodgers have been outspoken on what teams do with young QBs.  Basically talking about teams like us, the Bears, etc. 

I'm not saying Fields would have been a top tier passer if he sat.  But it's hard to argue the model he got put through was going to bring out whatever the best of him would have been.  I've said the same for Bryce.  Whatever Bryce's ceiling was going to be (and I don't think it was much)....the Panthers essentially ensured he would never see it. 

Yes, in years past that was the model all teams used to develop their qbs. Even then there were more failures than successes. In the past decade at least that's not been the case. It may swing back that way but it's not right now. But in Fields case he has not been nor will never be a pass 1st qb. You've seen them come and go over the years and those guys just cannot thrive in the nfl for very long. Their tendencies get figured out quickly and become less effective as a qb and all they have left with just running. He just another Tasom Hill without the passing or catching ability. Maybe if he sits for another year or two behind a good vet he could develop into something but you don't trade for a project like that.

[mrcompletely11]

4 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

You clearly don’t understand what a fallacy is. There was data to support that Canales could aid in QB growth. I don’t know that there is enough data to say if he was the root cause or not. 
 

Personally, I think Canales can win here. Scoring 28 points in the NFL should win you 75% of your games. Our defense is gutted. 

Fallacy = mistaken belief

 

 

Which is exactly what the idea is that Dave can work wonders on qbs.  There is simply more to it the that.   

[DaveThePanther2008]

2 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Howell isn’t a FA and Fields is. Howell would be a good one to look at if he was, but I’m game for signing Fields this offseason if the price is right. 

Agreed but trading for was the question. I'd personally would rather draft one, if a good one fell to our pick. 

If not, it wouldn't kill us to give Fields a 1 year deal. 

I just think Howell is going to a starter in this league for someone in 2026.  If we don't get one in the draft I'd push for Howell. 

[Waldo]

Fields looks like the kind of QB that will figure it out late if ever. He doesn't need to be starting but sitting for a while and doing a reset. Baker had his here, rock bottom and then sat. He isn't a good option this year or next year as a starter IMO. If he was a year or 2 along his career trajectory and a free agent who would sign a prove it deal? That's his sweet spot. Those guys need more time and need to be away from their rookie contract and drafted expectations.

And how will he like a high draft pick at QB? He isn't going to be a franchise QB and not all of those guys handle it as well as A Smith did in the many instances where his team upgraded over him.

[Jon Snow]

2 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Fallacy = mistaken belief

 

 

Which is exactly what the idea is that Dave can work wonders on qbs.  There is simply more to it the that.   

I think it's what fans, media and possibly Tepper thought he was because other qbs he was around had good seasons and assumed he was here to fix Bryce. Nevermind that he wasn't their qb coach during their turnaround. The only time he had a direct effect on an offense is in Tampa as an OC for 1 season. Somehow that translates in a qb whisperer. How, I do not know.

[DaveThePanther2008]

10 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Howell isn’t a FA and Fields is. Howell would be a good one to look at if he was, but I’m game for signing Fields this offseason if the price is right. 

Another bone headed move by Fitterer. Drafting Corral, who I admittedly liked, in round 3 and Howell dropped to the 5th round. 

[strato]

1 hour ago, Waldo said:

It also good that Smith and Baker like DC. Still I just found that funny.

My issue is with his history and what he brings on game day it might be 5 years instead of 2. That was what DC is and a long wait to see if another project developes is a hard sell given the recent history here. That was the rub with him as the hire for me. He is really raw and patience is difficult to scrape together without seeing improvement sooner than later. It is the not for long leauge. Hiring the right guy at the wrong time would be a classic Tepper move.

 

If I had to point to ONE thing, I would say that impatience is why we have had such a miserable run under Tepper. That is the root of all of it, whatever else may be an issue, pales beside that. It drove the bus. 

Canales is my hero right now. Stood up to Tepper and backed it up. Got us out from under the crushing weight of Bryce Young in record time.

I don't think I can overstate how fuging right that was, from where I sit. I'll give him all the time he needs within reason. OJT, fine with me as long as I see him learning and not repeating the same mistakes. 

The only thing I can see at this time that would turn me off is lack of urgency towards fixing the defensive side of things. Like, if they do another top two picks of offense, drafting Qb in 1 and anther WR in the 2nd, poo like that, with no respect paid to the defensive game, I will turn on them in short order.  

[ForJimmy]

9 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I think it's what fans, media and possibly Tepper thought he was because other qbs he was around had good seasons and assumed he was here to fix Bryce. Nevermind that he wasn't their qb coach during their turnaround. The only time he had a direct effect on an offense is in Tampa as an OC for 1 season. Somehow that translates in a qb whisperer. How, I do not know.

I believe he was Seattle’s QB Coach during Geno’s comeback year in 2022. He was the passing game coordinator the years prior. People are shying away from his ability to help QBs because he can’t help Bryce so quickly. Maybe Bryce just can’t be helped?