Terrace Marshall

[Jon Snow]

Just now, strato said:

That's pretty much what I imagined. I don't have the feeling that they were behind Bryce Young for instance. 

I refer back to the comments about the coaching staff meeting with the scouts to set the traits they are looking for in what they plan to run, and get people on the same page.

Which I don't remember hearing anyone articulate before. Not that it shouldn't be a normal part of the process, maybe no one bothered to point it out to the civillians.

They meet with area scouts and discuss their players that they have scouted and discuss how they ranked them and what it was based on. They do that for probably as many as 30 or 40 players per position depending on their needs. With QBs it may be only the top 10 and so on. Then the coaches decided how they want to rank them according to their fit. That's when things can go off the rails.

[strato]

2 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

They meet with area scouts and discuss their players that they have scouted and discuss how they ranked them and what it was based on. They do that for probably as many as 30 or 40 players per position depending on their needs. With QBs it may be only the top 10 and so on. Then the coaches decided how they want to rank them according to their fit. That's when things can go off the rails.

yeah that is how I would think it would be. Which informs my thinking that they really probably aren't the big issue with bad talent decisions. Like, replace them all.... what would that really do? 

You are gonna have under and over achievers just like any other group. 

Regarding the bad fits, bad evaluations, I would just assume or infer that that is as much a product of different standards or whatever, between different coaches. Systems. Philosophies. And changing these people out all the time leads to poo being out of synch. 

[Jon Snow]

7 minutes ago, strato said:

yeah that is how I would think it would be. Which informs my thinking that they really probably aren't the big issue with bad talent decisions. Like, replace them all.... what would that really do? 

You are gonna have under and over achievers just like any other group. 

Regarding the bad fits, bad evaluations, I would just assume or infer that that is as much a product of different standards or whatever, between different coaches. Systems. Philosophies. And changing these people out all the time leads to poo being out of synch. 

It's a little different with each team but from what I've gathered it been the Panthers SOP for a long time now. Scouts are tasked to look for players that fit what the team wants in that player. It's not necessarily find the best CB because thats subjective. It's rather l9ok for the best CB that can do X or is a certain height or arm length or some other requirement and then rank those guys.  It's different for every team.

Edited October 17 by Jon Snow

[strato]

That's a totally logical and intuitive perception to me. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

1 hour ago, Jon Snow said:

It's a little different with each team but from what I've gathered it been the Panthers SOP for a long time now. Scouts are tasked to look for players that fit what the team wants in that player. It's not necessarily find the best CB because thats subjective. It's rather l9ok for the best CB that can do X or is a certain height or arm length or some other requirement and then rank those guys.  It's different for every team.

I'd take drafting players that may actually succeed in the NFL sooner rather than later. 

[Jon Snow]

21 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I'd take drafting players that may actually succeed in the NFL sooner rather than later. 

Well you see there's no exact science to predict success in the nfl. It takes a lot of luck in that category. Some you can tell fit the profile but that doesn't guarantee you anything. Teams are trying anything to improve their odds of success. You seen all the analytics and measuring they do on these players. It's still a crap shoot. 

Edited October 17 by Jon Snow

[SmokinwithWilly]

I know it's not an exact science but drafting a 6'5" WR because your QB throws high or ignoring an all pro talent tackle because his arms are 3/4" shorter than ideal isn't smart practice though. We've been obsessed with analytics the past few years and we've ended up with some of the worst drafts in franchise history. Maybe it's time they look at guys that actually have sustained success in college instead of one year wonders with high RAS scores. 

[Jon Snow]

12 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I know it's not an exact science but drafting a 6'5" WR because your QB throws high or ignoring an all pro talent tackle because his arms are 3/4" shorter than ideal isn't smart practice though. We've been obsessed with analytics the past few years and we've ended up with some of the worst drafts in franchise history. Maybe it's time they look at guys that actually have sustained success in college instead of one year wonders with high RAS scores. 

You are preaching to the choir my friend. 

[LinvilleGorge]

16 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I know it's not an exact science but drafting a 6'5" WR because your QB throws high or ignoring an all pro talent tackle because his arms are 3/4" shorter than ideal isn't smart practice though. We've been obsessed with analytics the past few years and we've ended up with some of the worst drafts in franchise history. Maybe it's time they look at guys that actually have sustained success in college instead of one year wonders with high RAS scores. 

It's why I've always thought that having arbitrary minimum standards is dumb. That's how you miss out on a player like Smitty. 

Bryce wasn't a terrible pick just because of his height. It was the whole picture. He was short. He was slight built. He had a subpar NFL arm. It was hard to find plays in his college tape that translated to the NFL. There's no way you trade up to #1 overall to draft a player with so many glaring red flags in his game.

[strato]

24 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I know it's not an exact science but drafting a 6'5" WR because your QB throws high or ignoring an all pro talent tackle because his arms are 3/4" shorter than ideal isn't smart practice though. We've been obsessed with analytics the past few years and we've ended up with some of the worst drafts in franchise history. Maybe it's time they look at guys that actually have sustained success in college instead of one year wonders with high RAS scores. 

I never forgot that and it told 100% Gettleman did not get it.

They should have named him Don'tGettleman. 

Also, I think size parameters are a good thing but you can't ignore that some guys have abilities that transcend that. Smitty for sure. If they have that then... maybe you can get them in the 3rd round not the first.

Edited October 17 by strato

[strato]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It's why I've always thought that having arbitrary minimum standards is dumb. That's how you miss out on a player like Smitty. 

Bryce wasn't a terrible pick just because of his height. It was the whole picture. He was short. He was slight built. He had a subpar NFL arm. It was hard to find plays in his college tape that translated to the NFL. There's no way you trade up to #1 overall to draft a player with so many glaring red flags in his game.

It was not his size, although that height is a handicap. No doubt about that.

But it was his pro day and the throwing process he went through that warned me 'do not do this'. 

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, strato said:

It was not his size, although that height is a handicap. No doubt about that.

But it was his pro day and the throwing process he went through that warned me 'do not do this'. 

That dude hid like a criminal on the run throughout the pre-draft process.

[strato]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That dude hid like a criminal on the run throughout the pre-draft process.

Couldn't hide that though. Still inexplicable that people chose not to examine him closer and I know from reading your old posts where someone bumped a thread that you saw the exact thing at that time, that I saw. 

I think we let that designated Hail Mary incident die too soon. It got buried under a mountain of excuse making.

[Jon Snow]

4 minutes ago, strato said:

Couldn't hide that though. Still inexplicable that people chose not to examine him closer and I know from reading your old posts where someone bumped a thread that you saw the exact thing at that time, that I saw. 

I think we let that designated Hail Mary incident die too soon. It got buried under a mountain of excuse making.

Frank should have never sat him for that hail Mary. He should have shown the world that he could not throw it be making him throw it. That would have removed all doubt. Instead he let the speculation fester under the guise of an injury. They have been tiptoeing around it since he was drafted.

Edited October 17 by Jon Snow