Panthers Blitz/Stunt Rates

[LinvilleGorge]

15 minutes ago, strato said:

That's a nice thought. Show me how with this bunch. All you can do is try and slow them down. 

I think a couple of weeks back we gave up a 35 second drive and an under a minute drive, back to back. I don't think there is anything to win with here. We have one or two players on defense that you could win with. 

We're seeing the results of laying back and trying to slow them down. We're on pace to be one of the most futile defenses in NFL history. So try something else. 

A lot of elite defenses are actually pretty vanilla in scheme because they have the talent to be. Just put your guys in a situation to read and react and use their talent to make plays. We don't have that. We have to do something schematically to try to create opportunities.

[kungfoodude]

52 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm trying to win, not playing not to lose.

We are currently substantially worse at both pressuring the QB and coverage on blitzes in 2024.

Blitz: 129.7 Opposing QB Rating with 1 sack

Base Defense: 101.4 Opposing QB Rating with 5 sacks

 

Evero is looking at our success with blitzing, that's why we aren't doing it much. If you remember, a lot of our blitzing attempts are laughably bad. I am surprised you didn't notice. It's very obvious.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

We are currently substantially worse at both pressuring the QB and coverage on blitzes in 2024.

Blitz: 129.7 Opposing QB Rating with 1 sack

Base Defense: 101.4 Opposing QB Rating with 5 sacks

 

Evero is looking at our success with blitzing, that's why we aren't doing it much. If you remember, a lot of our blitzing attempts are laughably bad. I am surprised you didn't notice. It's very obvious.

So what's the game plan? Just keep doing what obviously isn't working? Change up the blitzes. Play better blitzers. You can't just lay back and keep getting punched in the mouth. You gotta try to change up something.

If I'm Canales and I'm sitting on a meeting with Evero and he's telling me that this current philosophy that is producing the worst defense in the league is the best idea he can come up with then I'm probably walking out of that meeting and going to Tepper's office and saying, "Listen, you already let me bench that scrub of a QB now I'm telling you that this holdover DC has to go to."

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

So what's the game plan? Just keep doing what obviously isn't working? Change up the blitzes. Play better blitzers. You can't just lay back and keep getting punched in the mouth. You gotta try to change up something.

If I'm Canales and I'm sitting on a meeting with Evero and he's telling me that this current philosophy that is producing the worst defense in the league is the best idea he can come up with then I'm probably walking out of that meeting and going to Tepper's office and saying, "Listen, you already let me bench that scrub of a QB now I'm telling you that this holdover DC has to go to."

We do change up the blitzes.

We have changed the blitzers, as well.

I am not sitting here saying that Evero is an elite DC but there is no DC in the NFL that could pull this unit out of the bottom 10 in the NFL.

They put together a bottom 5 unit and they are doing exactly what they were supposed to be doing, sucking real hard.

There is no answer. We can try shuffling PS players every week to just burn pointless cap money. We can try trading all of our future draft picks to mortgage our future. 

This isn't a 2024 problem that is able to be fixed. We are bad. It just is what it is.

If I am Canales, I probably also throw Evero under the bus to take some heat off me. He isn't a Canales guy. It's an easy scapegoat.

[ProcessBlue2]

Here's my thing though. 

If the secondary is the strongest part of this defense, put the pressure on them. What you're currently doing is not working. We are still allowing 30-40 points per game. Try something else. 

Is the pass rush is struggling, send more rushers and let's see if Horn is a good as some of you say and if Jackson needs an extension or not.

[LinvilleGorge]

16 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

We do change up the blitzes.

We have changed the blitzers, as well.

I am not sitting here saying that Evero is an elite DC but there is no DC in the NFL that could pull this unit out of the bottom 10 in the NFL.

They put together a bottom 5 unit and they are doing exactly what they were supposed to be doing, sucking real hard.

There is no answer. We can try shuffling PS players every week to just burn pointless cap money. We can try trading all of our future draft picks to mortgage our future. 

This isn't a 2024 problem that is able to be fixed. We are bad. It just is what it is.

If I am Canales, I probably also throw Evero under the bus to take some heat off me. He isn't a Canales guy. It's an easy scapegoat.

I don't think there's any DC that could pull this unit out of the bottom 10 either. But right now we're dead last in points allowed by a wide margin. If you're telling me the current approach is your best idea and you have nothing else up your sleeve you gotta go.

[strato]

12 minutes ago, ProcessBlue2 said:

Here's my thing though. 

If the secondary is the strongest part of this defense, put the pressure on them. What you're currently doing is not working. We are still allowing 30-40 points per game. Try something else. 

Is the pass rush is struggling, send more rushers and let's see if Horn is a good as some of you say and if Jackson needs an extension or not.

kungfoo is just .. right. There is no good outcome. It is pick your poison because either will kill you.

We can die the way you want or the other way. There is no solution for this with the lineup we are able to run out out on defense. 

If we can avoid more season ending injuries and keep the starters that are out there now together then maybe in a few weeks they will have gotten things a little tighter. Maybe. But right now, it is a no win. 

Again, 35 second drives, followed by a sub 60 second drive. Maybe I reversed the order it was two games ago... but wtf are you supposed to do with that? 

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I don't think there's any DC that could pull this unit out of the bottom 10 either. But right now we're dead last in points allowed by a wide margin. If you're telling me the current approach is your best idea and you have nothing else up your sleeve you gotta go.

I mean, the obvious answer to not getting your poo pushed in each week really has nothing to do with the defense. You have to change what you do offensively.

Be a ball control offense that wears the other teams defense down while keeping your defense off the field as much as possible. Dominate TOP.

Are we gonna make big strides in the W/L category that way? Probably not. It might just slim the margins up slightly.

If you just want to not allow as many points, that's really the sole way that is going to happen. 

[strato]

Thing is though, when your D can stop no one nor barely slow them down, you are going to get decent TOP numbers aren't you? I mean, avoid the 3 and outs and you will be right there. 

Stats... are a murky pool to swim in sometimes. Like rushing defense, when they pass all over you then your rushing numbers might fool someone. "Oh, look, we are 10th against the run!". Okay... 

actually that works really good for passing defense, when you really suck on offense they don't need to pass.

Edited October 15 by strato

[Bear Hands]

We shouldn’t expect a lot from him, but DJ Wonnum will be welcomed when he can finally play. We signed him knowing he was in recovery, so he needs to heal up and get in there. 2 years 12.5 mil — he’s almost missed a quarter of that contract duration already

He’s nothing special by any means but a huge improvement over what we’re seeing. 

Washed up Charles Harris, Tarron Jackson, Thomas Incoom… like WTH are these dudes haha.

[ForJimmy]

13 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

We shouldn’t expect a lot from him, but DJ Wonnum will be welcomed when he can finally play. We signed him knowing he was in recovery, so he needs to heal up and get in there. 2 years 12.5 mil — he’s almost missed a quarter of that contract duration already

He’s nothing special by any means but a huge improvement over what we’re seeing. 

Washed up Charles Harris, Tarron Jackson, Thomas Incoom… like WTH are these dudes haha.

Yeah Wonnum is an average starter, which means he will instantly be one of our best defenders.  Wonnum and Clowney together will be a welcomed sight if they can get healthy.  

[PNW_PantherMan]

35 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean, the obvious answer to not getting your poo pushed in each week really has nothing to do with the defense. You have to change what you do offensively.

Be a ball control offense that wears the other teams defense down while keeping your defense off the field as much as possible. Dominate TOP.

Are we gonna make big strides in the W/L category that way? Probably not. It might just slim the margins up slightly.

If you just want to not allow as many points, that's really the sole way that is going to happen. 

They can't stop anybody if they're on the field for 5 minutes or 5 seconds.  Keeping them fresh just means the worst defense in NFL history is fresh.  It doesn't help the fact that they can't play rested or not.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

They can't stop anybody if they're on the field for 5 minutes or 5 seconds.  Keeping them fresh just means the worst defense in NFL history is fresh.  It doesn't help the fact that they can't play rested or not.

I mean, this is literally a strategy employed by outmatched opponents from Pee Wee football up to the NFL. If you know that you are gonna have a high flying offense coming your way, you try to keep them out of rhythm by keeping them off the field and even the disparity by grinding their defense to dust.

Believe me, it's not a high probability of win tactic. It's just pure survival. 

That's who we are now. We are the "just survive and hope it goes our way" guys.

 

[PNW_PantherMan]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

I mean, this is literally a strategy employed by outmatched opponents from Pee Wee football up to the NFL. If you know that you are gonna have a high flying offense coming your way, you try to keep them out of rhythm by keeping them off the field and even the disparity by grinding their defense to dust.

Believe me, it's not a high probability of win tactic. It's just pure survival. 

That's who we are now. We are the "just survive and hope it goes our way" guys.

 

I know you have your thesis paper all typed up, but it's not gonna work man.  You'd have a case if they were out there doing a Chip Kelly impression, but the numbers say its still a pretty balanced offense.  We suck because we're ass.  That's it.  It's not the coaches fault or the play selection or whatever.  We suck.  That's all there is to it.  We literally cannot compete against most of the league.  You have made this argument yourself in countless threads about rebuilding.