We're not far away

[kungfoodude]

5 hours ago, TD alt said:

I have been listening to your continual skepticism. If Legette, Wallace and JB (who should have the easiest path) turn out to be legit starters, that's a damned good draft. Coker, though undrafted, would just be icing on the cake. JT Sanders could still carve out a starting role as well, which would make 2024 an extraordinary draft. Coaching will play a part in all this, but I'd still say that the needle is moving up, not down for our youngsters.

You are literally describing the best case scenario. I mean, we ALL hope that transpires but it's also very unlikely that it does.

If so, it would be a historic draft for the franchise(in terms of total starters).

[Basbear]

11 hours ago, Teddy2SuperBowlHeartBreaks said:

Watching yesterdays games I'm convinced that we are in a better position than teams like the Jaguars, Cowboys etc that are trying to build around Mid QBs that they've overpaid, and its just a waste of everybody's time. In todays NFL you need a top 8 QB and above average team around them, or a perfect team around a mid QB. The Jags are going to waste another 3 years convinced that Lawrence is a Top QB but he is mid.  Dallas might move on sooner. Our season is a complete success in that we know we have to find another QB next year in the draft. We won't waste any more time, meaning we are by default closer to finding our next franchise QB.

Another thing about yesterdays game, the talent on the offense isn't bad. Johnson looks like he can be a number 1. I've liked Legette thus far, all things considered. This offense with a Plus starter at QB would be at the very least fun to watch again. If the FO spends resources on the defense that unit should be closer to average next year. This division will be ass  as the Bucs get older, the Saints cap finally explodes. The Falcons future hinges on an oft injured unknown prospect at QB. I think we can get a better QB in the 2025 draft. We're one pick away.

 

 

 

[CRA]

I don’t see how we are better positioned than Dallas or even the Jags.

Both have better base talent that projects out past this year IMO.  Think coaching is really hurting both of those teams right now. 

[Deltek44]

One pick away? Sorry I am not trying to be a jerk and we are all in the same boat here but what are you talking about? Wash has a bad D, better off then Dallas..yada..yada. Dallas has top 10 QB, top 10 WR, and maybe the best D player in the league. Wash has pulled their starters in 2 games because they were blowing the other team out?

We have been blown out in 4 games. Two of which are average teams with no argument. Have we become so numb to 18 pt blow outs while using an old journey men washed QB. Sorry this just rubbed me the wrong way.

Edited October 14 by Deltek44

[TD alt]

4 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

You are literally describing the best case scenario. I mean, we ALL hope that transpires but it's also very unlikely that it does.

If so, it would be a historic draft for the franchise(in terms of total starters).

Well you're looking at the worst case scenario, and honestly it appears that we have at least two starters, and, like it or not, that's considered a good draft.

[Chaos]

I don't see how we could be a player away yet clearly headed into a freefall to land us the #1 pick in next year's draft almost assuredly.  The margin between being borderline decent and this god-awful isn't that thin.

[strato]

We had our one player bump already.

 Bryce Young starting for you, you are in take one player away mode. 

[OneBadCat]

The offense is pretty close. But we're going to have to draft a future Center next year. Defensively we need some combination of a starter at DE/Safey/ and LB.

Edited October 15 by OneBadCat

[WhoKnows]

9 hours ago, TD alt said:

Well you're looking at the worst case scenario, and honestly it appears that we have at least two starters, and, like it or not, that's considered a good draft.

Starting does not mean much if it’s just an open spot on a bad team. 2 above average NFL starters is a good draft. Wallace isn’t Luke/TD. Sanders sure doesn’t look like Olsen. Leggette hasn’t popped like Nabers and who knows about Brooks. It’s not a good draft if they just start. It’s a good draft if a couple (or more, god willing) of them become starters who could start for half the NFL teams. We are just treading water in the bottom 10 of the league until we start adding more Browns, healthy Horns, etc. Ian Thomas has been a starter for years and wouldn’t step on the field elsewhere.

[mrcompletely11]

9 hours ago, OneBadCat said:

The offense is pretty close. But we're going to have to draft a future Center next year. Defensively we need some combination of a starter at DE/Safey/ and LB.

Not really.  We are potentially set to lose 2 starting wrs and our starting rb.  

[kungfoodude]

12 hours ago, TD alt said:

Well you're looking at the worst case scenario, and honestly it appears that we have at least two starters, and, like it or not, that's considered a good draft.

I am looking at our history especially recent, which is rather unkind. Currently we have no idea how many long term starters we have. 

Mingo was pitched as such a player last season, he is quite clearly a bust. Same as TMJ before him. 

These guys are all way too early in their careers to be calling any shots, positively or negatively. 

We have two very good recent examples of this. Jeremy Chinn was widely regarded by us all as being a postential franchise defender. Instead, he is not longer on our team and never ended up reaching his initial heights. Chuba Hubbard was widely hated and mocked his first couple of years. He is now statistically one of the best rushers in the NFL and he has dramatically improved in most aspects of his game.

I still believe this was a bad draft(for several reasons) but we are at least a full season(likely more) away from knowing.

We just differ on our perspectives of franchise direction. I don't think it has tilted upwards and you believe we are on the rise.

[strato]

 Compare a top ten pick with number 75 or whatever, it usually won't be a win for old 75. It likely won't be a win for old 32 over the 6th pick. Or the 4th or the 9th even. (Legette, how do we judge his first two games? Throw them out for me. McConkey picked right after, has 6 more catches, a few more yards, same TD production, fwiw) 

People comparing Sanders to Olsen, and Wallace to Luke, just is not that fair. And I do not endorse this as being a parallel comp but Luke wasn't Luke his first year. I mean I'm not saying Wallace becomes that, just that he should improve from this year. And in season, I hope to see improvement and maturity. 

---

I promise you though, Luke would not have been smiling right after the D gave up 38 points like Wallace was. And he did that poo last week too. That is troublesome to me.

[TD alt]

11 hours ago, WhoKnows said:

Starting does not mean much if it’s just an open spot on a bad team. 2 above average NFL starters is a good draft. Wallace isn’t Luke/TD. Sanders sure doesn’t look like Olsen. Leggette hasn’t popped like Nabers and who knows about Brooks. It’s not a good draft if they just start. It’s a good draft if a couple (or more, god willing) of them become starters who could start for half the NFL teams. We are just treading water in the bottom 10 of the league until we start adding more Browns, healthy Horns, etc. Ian Thomas has been a starter for years and wouldn’t step on the field elsewhere.

Not one receiver has "popped like Nabers," you're being unrealistic. The light switch doesn't come on for all potential stars at the same time. Talent levels are different (though different receivers can specialize in different things), coaching is different, situations are different, and the last two speak to the fact that opportunities are different as well. Every receiver is not on the same time schedule. Legette has a greater learning curve, but he has flashed for sure [Even my son, who loves to rightfully clown the Panthers due to years of suckiness said that we may have something in Legette, and, take my word for it, that's saying something].

How you know that Trevin Wallace isn't a special talent is beyond me. He has certainly seized and made the most of his opportunity, and I've heard more than one analyst allude to the fact that he may be special. Moreover, Luke may be the best that I ever saw in some respects, so...but TD is in the same group with Beason and Morgan as far as I'm concerned, which was good, and Wallace has played good---very well. 

Don't downplay good play or flashes of talent just because your overall opinion of the team has been jaundiced by bad management, drafting and coaching for so many years. The Rhule-Fitterer Era is dead, and the Fitterer-Reich era crashed within seconds of takeoff.

Don't downplay the bright spots for the darkness. Even fireflies are still amazing.

 

Edited October 16 by TD alt

[WhoKnows]

2 hours ago, TD alt said:

Not one receiver has "popped like Nabers," you're being unrealistic. The light switch doesn't come on for all potential stars at the same time. Talent levels are different (though different receivers can specialize in different things), coaching is different, situations are different, and the last two speak to the fact that opportunities are different as well. Every receiver is not on the same time schedule. Legette has a greater learning curve, but he has flashed for sure [Even my son, who loves to rightfully clown the Panthers due to years of suckiness said that we may have something in Legette, and, take my word for it, that's saying something].

How you know that Trevin Wallace isn't a special talent is beyond me. He has certainly seized and made the most of his opportunity, and I've heard more than one analyst allude to the fact that he may be special. Moreover, Luke may be the best that I ever saw in some respects, so...but TD is in the same group with Beason and Morgan as far as I'm concerned, which was good, and Wallace has played good---very well. 

Don't downplay good play or flashes of talent just because your overall opinion of the team has been jaundiced by bad management, drafting and coaching for so many years. The Rhule-Fitterer Era is dead, and the Fitterer-Reich era crashed within seconds of takeoff.

Don't downplay the bright spots for the darkness. Even fireflies are still amazing.

 

Unrealistic? Damn, take those rose colored glasses off. Wallace isn’t Luke but he’s played as well as TD, Beason and Morgan?

Legette has been better than Mingo/TMJ thankfully but I don’t think he’s popped like a few of the top WRs have. He’s 10th in rookie receiving yards which isn’t bad but he’s not exceeding his draft slot. He’s also one of two rookies in the top 10 in yards that is already 23. The others are around 1.5 to 2+ years younger.

I’m happy that Legette doesn’t look like our normal picks but you are being more unrealistic about where they are already.