0:26 / 21:08 Carolina Panthers and Dave Canales must evaluate Ejiro Evero as defensive coordinator

[frankw]

Evero should be facing some level of criticism as he has had significant input in some of the roster management on that side of the ball.

At the same time. If we are now going to formally begin "evaluating" Evero we also must follow with doing so for Morgan. It is our first time GM who set the wheels in motion for this defense to be historically bad and undermanned in order to build around our first overall pick.

IMO you can't ask for one without the other and if you do then you cannot be taken seriously because the front office absolutely needs to be asked some tough questions too.

[ProcessBlue2]

3 minutes ago, frankw said:

Evero should be facing some level of criticism as he has had significant input in some of the roster management on that side of the ball.

At the same time. If we are now going to formally begin "evaluating" Evero we also must follow with doing so for Morgan. It is our first time GM who set the wheels in motion for this defense to be historically bad and undermanned in order to build around our first overall pick.

IMO you can't ask for one without the other and if you do then you cannot be taken seriously because the front office absolutely needs to be asked some tough questions too.

Morgan did what he had to do to fix the OL, if he hadn't everyone would be screaming about the offense. 

Evero's system and bringing in coaches and players he knew was supposed to supplement that, it failed. 

EE has rode the success of teams and defenses that other people built and it is showing. 

Edited October 10 by ProcessBlue2

[frankw]

2 minutes ago, ProcessBlue2 said:

Morgan did what he had to do to fix the OL, if he hadn't everyone would be screaming about the offense. 

Evero's system and bringing in coaches and players he knew was supposed to supplement that, it failed. 

EE has rode the success of teams and defenses that other people built and it is showing. 

Morgan "fixed" the OL and we hired an offensive head coach and we are currently 25th in YPG and 29th in PPG.

We are simultaneously giving up an historical number of PPG defensively.

Again. Cannot have this conversation without tough questions for our GM too.

[MHS831]

Key Losses from Last season:
Edge Burns, LB Luvu, CB Jackson, Edge Gross Matos

Off season free agent Additions who have been key contributors CB M Jackson, Edge Clowney (?)

Draft Additions:  No Starters (3rd rounder LB, 5th round CB, 6th round DL)

Losses to injury this season:  LB Thompson, DT Brown,  LB Jewell 

So from last season, you lost 4 starters, added 2 in free agency, did not draft a starter (focus on Offense), and then you lose your 3 inside starters to injury.  That is a difference of 5 starters (net) with the 2 replacements as Clowney for Burns and M Jackson for D Jackson.  So we now have subs at 5 positions and got weaker at 2....(did this from memory--not focused on S and did not mention Chinn...)

 

[Waldo]

20 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Sure but there is no magical new starting defense out there to be gained.

We don't want to fall into the same Rhule/Fitterer trap again and freak out to make a bunch of personnel moves that borrow from the future to "fix" the now.

It is what it is. Embrace the suck and evaluate people for 2025.

Me either on the freaking out part, none of that please. No big move on the personnel side is going to un-fug what they have done and what came before. 

It's just obvious Evero is out here either way here, they already blocked him and he can't be happy right now ruining his career while he isn't turning this around. That's a dead man waiting already, fair or unfair he is getting scapegoated at some point looking at all the angles on this trajectory. It's likely to buy DC and DM time but I would just be happy doing that soon vs then to get started at evaluations from another angle. Just getting a little more out of what is here would be a win, like miniscule or just noticeable change. A well run no talent D would be a positive change IMO. He wasn't installing his D well when people were healthy. They had one good series on Sunday and then it looked like no talent mixed with bad coaching the rest of the time with guys dropping along the way. 

And I'm embracing the suck regardless. I can say what I want to see but I fully expect it to stay in the suck until it stops. I am done with optimism when it comes to the Panthers until who knows when. Sorry if I gave those vibes but I would love to burn that house down, drown the ashes in bleach and let someone else build anything else in it's place. 

[Deltek44]

And the hits keep coming, Luvu who had 2.5 sacks and int last week went on the The 33rd Team and said he wished he had played under Quinn for his entire 7 year career.

Things have to change here.

[jayboogieman]

25 minutes ago, Waldo said:

I would love to burn that house down, drown the ashes in bleach and let someone else build anything else in it's place. 

[ProcessBlue2]

53 minutes ago, frankw said:

Morgan "fixed" the OL and we hired an offensive head coach and we are currently 25th in YPG and 29th in PPG.

We are simultaneously giving up an historical number of PPG defensively.

Again. Cannot have this conversation without tough questions for our GM too.

The first two weeks skew the offensive data.

Since Bryce was benched, the Panthers average 368 total yards, 232 passing yards, and 135 rushing yards per game which ranks 8th, 10th, and 8th, the last 3 weeks.

Edited October 10 by ProcessBlue2

[ProcessBlue2]

Also, 

The Titans have the #1 Defense in the NFL right now and 90% of the huddle couldn't name the DC or a single player without googling. It's not always about the players.

Edited October 10 by ProcessBlue2

[Mage]

1 minute ago, ProcessBlue2 said:

The first two weeks skew the offensive data.

Since Bryce was benched, the Panthers average 368 total yards, 232 passing yards, and 135 rushing yards per game which ranks 8th, 10th, and 8th, the last 3 weeks.

To be fair we were playing 2 of the worst defenses in the NFL.  Not Panthers D bad, but bad nonetheless.

Chicago put the clamps on us.  I think that will be closer to what we see going forward.  I do think the run game is legit but Dalton is going to start turning it over more, especially as he tries to keep up with the other offense.

[Mage]

3 minutes ago, ProcessBlue2 said:

Also, 

The Titans have the #1 Defense in the NFL right now and 90% of the huddle couldn't name the DC or a single player without googling. It's not always about the players.

Jeffrey Simmons.

They also got Snead from the Chiefs.  That defense definitely has some talent on it, way more than ours.  There is zero comparison.

EDIT - Looked up to make sure I wasn't tripping.  Quandre Diggs, Amani Hooker, Harold Landry, Murray, Joseph-Day... yeah it is way ahead of ours.  That defense isn't proof that it isn't always about the player.

Edited October 10 by Mage

[frankw]

7 minutes ago, ProcessBlue2 said:

The first two weeks skew the offensive data.

Since Bryce was benched, the Panthers average 368 total yards, 232 passing yards, and 135 rushing yards per game which ranks 8th, 10th, and 8th, the last 3 weeks.

 

5 minutes ago, ProcessBlue2 said:

Also, 

The Titans have the #1 Defense in the NFL right now and 90% of the huddle couldn't name the DC or a single player without googling. It's not always about the players.

If Evero goes so be it he is not someone beyond reproach. I won't be upset about it. I'm simply for applying any criticism evenly.

But can you tell me specifically why you are so apprehensive to assign any level of blame to Morgan? Who btw was right beside Fitterer when he was making awful decisions the last few years.

Removing Evero only opens the door to a heavier focus on the GM. And makes this place even more undesirable if that's even possible.

The Chicago Bears are not known to be a well run franchise and they absolutely dragged us on both sides of the ball. There should be no excuses for Evero Canales or Morgan. That cannot continue.

[ProcessBlue2]

21 minutes ago, frankw said:

 

If Evero goes so be it he is not someone beyond reproach. I won't be upset about it. I'm simply for applying any criticism evenly.

But can you tell me specifically why you are so apprehensive to assign any level of blame to Morgan? Who btw was right beside Fitterer when he was making awful decisions the last few years.

Removing Evero only opens the door to a heavier focus on the GM. And makes this place even more undesirable if that's even possible.

The Chicago Bears are not known to be a well run franchise and they absolutely dragged us on both sides of the ball. There should be no excuses for Evero Canales or Morgan. That cannot continue.

Just because he was under Fitterer on the org chart doesn't mean he signed off on every decision. In a previous job, my boss was HORRIBLE. Great guy, terrible leader. I couldn't walk around disagreeing with him all the time and sowing division or I would have been pushed out. However, when he was gone, I moved into that role, changed things and did things my way- same thing here.

I refuse to give up on Morgan midway through season 1, especially when he has to rebuild the mess Fitterer created. I think because Morgan has ties here, he understands the organization, fan base, and how the culture used to be. Fitterer was just happy to get a GM role and cared more about being trendy. Years of destruction and setbacks happened under Fitterer, the Bryce trade alone set us back 2-3 years, not to mention the bad contracts. 

Morgan has had more hits than misses this year:

Legette- Already more promising than Mingo.

Wallace- Hit (So far)

Hunt- Hit

Lewis- Hit

D.Johnson-Hit (and got rid of Jackson in the process)

Mike Jackson- (Traded a 7th rounder that didn't even make the Seahawk's roster for him)

Clowney- Meh

If you look at the guys underperforming, most are Fitterer guys, or guys that used to play for Evero elsewhere.

Edited October 10 by ProcessBlue2

[frankw]

7 minutes ago, ProcessBlue2 said:

Just because he was under Fitterer on the org chart doesn't mean he signed off on every decision. In a previous job, my boss was HORRIBLE. Great guy, terrible leader. I couldn't walk around disagreeing with him all the time and sowing division or I would have been pushed out. However, when he was gone, I moved into that role, changed things and did things my way- same thing here.

I refuse to give up on Morgan midway through season 1, especially when he has to rebuild the mess Fitterer created. I think because Morgan has ties here, he understands the organization, fan base, and how the culture used to be. Fitterer was just happy to get a GM role and cared more about being trendy. Years of destruction and setbacks happened under Fitterer, the Bryce trade alone set us back 2-3 years, not to mention the bad contracts. 

Morgan has had more hits than misses this year:

Legette- Already more promising than Mingo.

Wallace- Hit (So far)

Hunt- Hit

Lewis- Hit

D.Johnson-Hit (and got rid of Jackson in the process)

Mike Jackson- (Traded a 7th rounder that didn't even make the Seahawk's roster for him)

Clowney- Meh

If you look at the guys underperforming, most are Fitterer guys, or guys that used to play for Evero elsewhere.

Morgan for me right now is incomplete. Same for Canales and his staff. That's plenty fair. Everything depends on how the season concludes. We need to be trending upward in some areas. If not everyone should be under the microscope.

Anywho appreciate the convo. We can just agree to disagree regarding the rest. All good.