Opinions on Ekwonu

[kungfoodude]

Just now, ForJimmy said:

That was an overpayment on a FA we just signed. Much similar to DJ now who people are wanting to extend. Icky would be a player we drafted in year 3 of his contract. It’s still early on Icky because we get that 5th year option and some of these other expensive OL might be off the books by then. 

We did this with CMC making him the highest RB in NFL history and the proceeded to watch him miss 23 of the next 39 games he was here. Ironically he just again became the highest paid RB in NFL history and hasn't played a single game yet.

[frankw]

No contract giveaways here....

Didn't we just have a long running thread about extending Diontae Johnson that quickly fizzled out after we were blown out?

I am very firmly in the camp of no new contract extensions until after the conclusion of the season.

Remember 2010?

Only way to build up the worst team in the league is to stack assets and draft good football players.

Edited October 9 by frankw

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Jon Snow said:

I'm just not enamored with what he brings to this team in it's current state. To me it would be a wasted contract without a future qb to develop with him. Until we have that it's just not financially feasible to invest big in receivers when you dint have a qb and probably won't for a couple more seasons yet. I think they should just keep drafting them and let the cream rise to the top. When they do that's who you throw money at.

I disagree generally. I am fine building the team because it also makes you an attractive option(eventually) for free agent QB's. Hard to draw any serious FA QB interest from veteran QB's(or quality starting ones) if you just don't have a team.

Similarly, if we somehow end up with a younger QB this offseason or next, the lack of premium WR's will stick out like a sore thumb. It's hard to manufacture that from scratch.

Look at Chicago. Yes they drafted Odunze too but he has been underwhelming so far as a rookie. But Williams DOES have good chemistry with the existing and very much capable DJ Moore. That transition would be far more complicated for Caleb minus DJ Moore.

I don't want to overpay Johnson but we don't have any realistic WR options of his caliber without him. He's a legitimate NFL WR. Our other one is a very aging slot guy.

[frankw]

There's also the reality of what we've already got allocated to the offensive line as a whole. Add a fresh left tackle contract and we are way ahead of the rest of the league. I mean I want to be first in something for once too. But we also do not have an NFL defense and we kinda need one of those.

Man it sure would be nice to have a legit future Center on a rookie deal right about now...

[Jon Snow]

11 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I disagree generally. I am fine building the team because it also makes you an attractive option(eventually) for free agent QB's. Hard to draw any serious FA QB interest from veteran QB's(or quality starting ones) if you just don't have a team.

Similarly, if we somehow end up with a younger QB this offseason or next, the lack of premium WR's will stick out like a sore thumb. It's hard to manufacture that from scratch.

Look at Chicago. Yes they drafted Odunze too but he has been underwhelming so far as a rookie. But Williams DOES have good chemistry with the existing and very much capable DJ Moore. That transition would be far more complicated for Caleb minus DJ Moore.

I don't want to overpay Johnson but we don't have any realistic WR options of his caliber without him. He's a legitimate NFL WR. Our other one is a very aging slot guy.

I just think you will waste the first 2 years of his contract on scrub qb's. I agree you build out the team until you get a qb but I'm not for doing that with giving put big contracts. We've been doing that our entire existence and look where that's gotten us. They are the worst in the league with one of the worst cap situations in the league. At some point you have to stop the bleeding. 

Edited October 9 by Jon Snow

[Waldo]

42 minutes ago, PantherChris said:

Pretty sure that was crap poster CPantherKing not him

It was but I was just agreeing with KFD and said CP had a crap take by breaking down the 1st game with Young under center. If I came off that way it wasn't my intention. I also like the Gross comparison where you have a guy who could be better elsewhere but fills a huge need at LT. 

[Waldo]

If we drafted the better WRs we wouldn't need Johnson, he would be redundant. Unfortunately we keep drafting the wrong kinds of WRs that can't run routes or catch the ball correctly/at all. 

[ForJimmy]

33 minutes ago, frankw said:

There's also the reality of what we've already got allocated to the offensive line as a whole. Add a fresh left tackle contract and we are way ahead of the rest of the league. I mean I want to be first in something for once too. But we also do not have an NFL defense and we kinda need one of those.

Man it sure would be nice to have a legit future Center on a rookie deal right about now...

Yeah if we extend him it will probably be after his 5th year. Hunt has a friendly opt up after year 3. We need to draft some IOL to learn while these vets are here. 

[kungfoodude]

32 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I just think you will waste the first 2 years of his contract on scrub qb's. I agree you build out the team until you get a qb but I'm not for doing that with giving put big contracts. We've been doing that our entire existence and look where that's gotten us. They are the worst in the league with one of the worst cap situations in the league. At some point you have to stop the bleeding. 

Yeah, hence why I say it has to make sense. I am fine with the Dalton's, Flacco's, etc until we get a guy. Just making a functional offense helps the whole organization. We have to start building a winning culture again too. That takes talent.

fug it, you want to rock Jimmy G to 12+ wins for a few years and then trade the farm for Trey Lance....let's do it. But let's put ourselves in the same scenario in which we are so good at talent evaluation and have some much talent that is just a blip on the radar compared to a franchise direction nuking event like Bryce was for us.

That's one reason I want to build a good franchise anyway. It ALLOWS for some of those wild trades because you already have a built team looking for 1 or 2 things. It's a lot less impactful than a team of 1 or 2 things that needs 30 or 40 more things.

[kungfoodude]

10 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Yeah if we extend him it will probably be after his 5th year. Hunt has a friendly opt up after year 3. We need to draft some IOL to learn while these vets are here. 

OL depth has been an issue for about 15-20 years. We should be taking at least one every draft in some capacity. 

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

OL depth has been an issue for about 15-20 years. We should be taking at least one every draft in some capacity. 

Especially in those late rounds.  Big school OL should be added each yeah.  I will say that great OL are just hard to come by in general.  I'm not sure many teams have great depth there.  The good ones can kind of scheme around it when there are injuries.  Outside of center our depth is actually decent right now.  Zavla looked ok, BC is a good depth player, Yosh is a good swing tackle....

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Especially in those late rounds.  Big school OL should be added each yeah.  I will say that great OL are just hard to come by in general.  I'm not sure many teams have great depth there.  The good ones can kind of scheme around it when there are injuries.  Outside of center our depth is actually decent right now.  Zavla looked ok, BC is a good depth player, Yosh is a good swing tackle....

That's the thing. You can get some serviceable and even starting caliber OL in the 3rd to 7th rounds. You don't have to reach on "your guys." Just make a good board and play it. Find guys that fit your scheme and coach them up as backups.

In a 17 and soon to be 18 game season, you better have some OL depth.

Edited October 9 by kungfoodude

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, frankw said:

No contract giveaways here....

Didn't we just have a long running thread about extending Diontae Johnson that quickly fizzled out after we were blown out?

I am very firmly in the camp of no new contract extensions until after the conclusion of the season.

Remember 2010?

Only way to build up the worst team in the league is to stack assets and draft good football players.

I am not saying extend him now. I am saying we should have that discussion on the likelihood of an extension even being possible in the offseason because Johnson might be a guy that is a candidate to be moved before the trade deadline. That's the sole purpose of a discussion like that, to determine if there is even a future for him here at all.

[Jon Snow]

25 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, hence why I say it has to make sense. I am fine with the Dalton's, Flacco's, etc until we get a guy. Just making a functional offense helps the whole organization. We have to start building a winning culture again too. That takes talent.

fug it, you want to rock Jimmy G to 12+ wins for a few years and then trade the farm for Trey Lance....let's do it. But let's put ourselves in the same scenario in which we are so good at talent evaluation and have some much talent that is just a blip on the radar compared to a franchise direction nuking event like Bryce was for us.

That's one reason I want to build a good franchise anyway. It ALLOWS for some of those wild trades because you already have a built team looking for 1 or 2 things. It's a lot less impactful than a team of 1 or 2 things that needs 30 or 40 more things.

Agree 100% on all points. The first thing they need to get right is  drafting. Until they start hitting on draft picks nothing else will matter. At least clear the cap while they suck.